5 ms·

There's no age limit her. We're in our 40's, we watch a lot of series and movies, but we've rarely seen commercials in the past 10 or so years. Sometimes we sta

by rickmb 15y ago

There's no age limit her. We're in our 40's, we watch a lot of series and movies, but we've rarely seen commercials in the past 10 or so years. Sometimes we start watching a show or movie more or less by accident, but that usually ends at the first commercial break. Both of us find it hard to imagine people can actually tolerate watching TV that way, even though we've done the same for a long time. But imho it's not so much TV that is broken. It's advertising. In today's world of on-demand personalized information, advertising has zero value. It's just noise. In SF movies we often see a world full of advertising everywhere, with lots of sound and motion. I like to believe the (near) future will be exactly the opposite: the advertising industry, no longer adding any value or generating any ROI, will collapse. Taking old school "broken" TV with it.

cafard 15y ago
"But imho it's not so much TV that is broken. It's advertising. In today's world of on-demand personalized information, advertising has zero value." What happens to Google & Facebook without advertising?
- hyperbovine 15y ago
  They start charging? Just shooting from the hip here...
- ricardobeat 15y ago
  Their advertising is less broken. I'd still rather pay for GMail instead of seeing ads.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    I'd still rather pay for GMail instead of seeing ads. You can; it costs $50/year, though: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/features.html http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/features.html
    - WiseWeasel 15y ago
      I've been happy with Fastmail.fm, which has ad-free plans with reasonable storage for $20/yr, or decent storage and bring-your-own-domain for $40/yr. They also have business plans starting at $90/yr for 5 accounts, which is significantly less than what G charges. disclosure: I have no affiliation with Fastmail.fm other than being a longtime customer.
    - w1ntermute 15y ago
      Seems like a pittance, given the value you're receiving in return.
    - mdda 15y ago
      The (paid for) Google Apps for Business still has a line of Ads at the top of the email listing. No ads down the RHS, though.
      - dfabulich 15y ago
        You mean the bar that says "Web Clip?" You can turn that off. Mail Settings -> Web Clip tab.
- kbruner 15y ago
  This is my least favorite argument when talking about removing advertising from my life. Facebook and Google will simply do something else. Why is "ad supported" always considered the only business model?
  - dpark 15y ago
    What business model do you see for Google that doesn't involve advertising but would allow them to continue providing Gmail and search? Yes, they might conceivably charge $15/mo for a while. But then Comcast will come along and say, "Hey, here's a (mediocre) search and email service that we will bundle for 'free'!" and just like that, Google basically stops providing search and email (or provides it only to bundling partners).
    - billybob 15y ago
      >>>But then Comcast will come along and say, "Hey, here's a (mediocre) search and email service that we will bundle for 'free'!"<<< I don't know about you, but I would pay for Gmail in a heartbeat. It's a great service. I can guarantee that Comcast would make something 1,000 times crappier and that I'd waste hundreds of hours of my life fighting with it. In fact, I'd rather be paying for Gmail so that I'd be their customer and not their product. I'm happy that I pay for Pinboard because I know that it motivates them to please me and not someone else to whom they can sell my data. And I'm happy because my payment is an investment in the continued existence of a service I value. You're asserting that Gmail and Google search aren't valuable enough for people to pay for them. If that's true, they shouldn't exist in a free market. But I don't think it's true.
      - dpark 15y ago
        The question is not what you or I would do, but what the general population would do. How many people consider gmail to be critical enough that they will pay for it? > You're asserting that Gmail and Google search aren't valuable enough for people to pay for them. If that's true, they shouldn't exist in a free market. The free market involves advertising. How much entertainment in paid for with advertising? Should none of that exist? Should, e.g., "How I Met Your Mother" be cancelled? I seriously doubt it would exist in an advertisement-free market.
lukifer 15y ago
> It's advertising. Agreed. It's simply a bad business model; you're the product, not the customer, etc. It also has a hugely distorted effect on content production, incentivizing shows to shoot for safe returns and broad appeal instead of monetizing hardcore fans of innovative niche programming. Put simply, I want businesses to care whether they have my money, not my eyeballs. I cut most forms of advertising out of my life 7-8 years ago: no radio, no broadcast TV, and FlashBlock+AdBlock. Once you do so, it's hard to go back. (Although YouTube's trend towards more and more video ads is getting frustrating; I wish I could throw $20/month at YouTube Pro or something to make it go away.)
- nollidge 15y ago
  > no radio There's definitely quality non-profit radio stations (NPR affiliates, for example) depending on where you live. At worst you get the fund drives that are annoying (but understandable) for a week. EDIT: This assumes you're in the U.S., though.
  - Periodic 15y ago
    I listen mostly to NPR. Occasionally (pledge drives, reruns, shows I don't care for) I will turn to traditional radio to fill the void while driving (older car with no MP3 interface). It's amazing to me how many commercials they have! They feel interminable and it feels like at least half the channels have commercials playing at any given time. It really makes me appreciate KQED (local NPR station) and is the reason I support them. Fortunately, I'm seeing more and more cars support USB interfaces. Now I can just load up a USB stick (they are so cheap) with my music and old episodes of This American Life and I'm good to go for hundreds of miles.
    - caw 15y ago
      Where I am it seems like the commercials are synchronized across stations so you can't flip through radio stations and listen to music. I've switched to Pandora and my mp3 collection on my phone. I pipe that to my car stereo, which works well enough.
    - 15y ago
rmc 15y ago
I don't think advertising will go away, but will change. Companies will still want to attract new customers, i.e. advertise their wares/services. People who have other people's attention will probably still sell it. However advertising will change to cope with the new system.

by rickmb 15y ago

cafard 15y ago

"But imho it's not so much TV that is broken. It's advertising. In today's world of on-demand personalized information, advertising has zero value." What happens to Google & Facebook without advertising?

hyperbovine 15y ago
They start charging? Just shooting from the hip here...
ricardobeat 15y ago
Their advertising is less broken. I'd still rather pay for GMail instead of seeing ads.
- icebraining 15y ago
  I'd still rather pay for GMail instead of seeing ads. You can; it costs $50/year, though: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/features.html http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/features.html
  - WiseWeasel 15y ago
    I've been happy with Fastmail.fm, which has ad-free plans with reasonable storage for $20/yr, or decent storage and bring-your-own-domain for $40/yr. They also have business plans starting at $90/yr for 5 accounts, which is significantly less than what G charges. disclosure: I have no affiliation with Fastmail.fm other than being a longtime customer.
  - w1ntermute 15y ago
    Seems like a pittance, given the value you're receiving in return.
  - mdda 15y ago
    The (paid for) Google Apps for Business still has a line of Ads at the top of the email listing. No ads down the RHS, though.
    - dfabulich 15y ago
      You mean the bar that says "Web Clip?" You can turn that off. Mail Settings -> Web Clip tab.
kbruner 15y ago
This is my least favorite argument when talking about removing advertising from my life. Facebook and Google will simply do something else. Why is "ad supported" always considered the only business model?
- dpark 15y ago
  What business model do you see for Google that doesn't involve advertising but would allow them to continue providing Gmail and search? Yes, they might conceivably charge $15/mo for a while. But then Comcast will come along and say, "Hey, here's a (mediocre) search and email service that we will bundle for 'free'!" and just like that, Google basically stops providing search and email (or provides it only to bundling partners).
  - billybob 15y ago
    >>>But then Comcast will come along and say, "Hey, here's a (mediocre) search and email service that we will bundle for 'free'!"<<< I don't know about you, but I would pay for Gmail in a heartbeat. It's a great service. I can guarantee that Comcast would make something 1,000 times crappier and that I'd waste hundreds of hours of my life fighting with it. In fact, I'd rather be paying for Gmail so that I'd be their customer and not their product. I'm happy that I pay for Pinboard because I know that it motivates them to please me and not someone else to whom they can sell my data. And I'm happy because my payment is an investment in the continued existence of a service I value. You're asserting that Gmail and Google search aren't valuable enough for people to pay for them. If that's true, they shouldn't exist in a free market. But I don't think it's true.
    - dpark 15y ago
      The question is not what you or I would do, but what the general population would do. How many people consider gmail to be critical enough that they will pay for it? > You're asserting that Gmail and Google search aren't valuable enough for people to pay for them. If that's true, they shouldn't exist in a free market. The free market involves advertising. How much entertainment in paid for with advertising? Should none of that exist? Should, e.g., "How I Met Your Mother" be cancelled? I seriously doubt it would exist in an advertisement-free market.

lukifer 15y ago

> It's advertising. Agreed. It's simply a bad business model; you're the product, not the customer, etc. It also has a hugely distorted effect on content production, incentivizing shows to shoot for safe returns and broad appeal instead of monetizing hardcore fans of innovative niche programming. Put simply, I want businesses to care whether they have my money, not my eyeballs. I cut most forms of advertising out of my life 7-8 years ago: no radio, no broadcast TV, and FlashBlock+AdBlock. Once you do so, it's hard to go back. (Although YouTube's trend towards more and more video ads is getting frustrating; I wish I could throw $20/month at YouTube Pro or something to make it go away.)

nollidge 15y ago
> no radio There's definitely quality non-profit radio stations (NPR affiliates, for example) depending on where you live. At worst you get the fund drives that are annoying (but understandable) for a week. EDIT: This assumes you're in the U.S., though.
- Periodic 15y ago
  I listen mostly to NPR. Occasionally (pledge drives, reruns, shows I don't care for) I will turn to traditional radio to fill the void while driving (older car with no MP3 interface). It's amazing to me how many commercials they have! They feel interminable and it feels like at least half the channels have commercials playing at any given time. It really makes me appreciate KQED (local NPR station) and is the reason I support them. Fortunately, I'm seeing more and more cars support USB interfaces. Now I can just load up a USB stick (they are so cheap) with my music and old episodes of This American Life and I'm good to go for hundreds of miles.
  - caw 15y ago
    Where I am it seems like the commercials are synchronized across stations so you can't flip through radio stations and listen to music. I've switched to Pandora and my mp3 collection on my phone. I pipe that to my car stereo, which works well enough.
  - 15y ago

rmc 15y ago

I don't think advertising will go away, but will change. Companies will still want to attract new customers, i.e. advertise their wares/services. People who have other people's attention will probably still sell it. However advertising will change to cope with the new system.