5 ms·

> "Always be surrounded by love..." unless you are gay. Gay, trans, atheist, feminist, brown, an opioid addict, a questioner of authority, or otherwise differen

> "Always be surrounded by love..." unless you are gay. Gay, trans, atheist, feminist, brown, an opioid addict, a questioner of authority, or otherwise different. Or a middle-aged white man. https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/

4ggr0 3y ago
[flagged]
- ViscountPenguin 3y ago
  Given what we know demographically about middle age white males (that they're relatively richer, more powerful e.t.c. than their peers) you can make some useful inferences about what doesn't work to decrease suicide risk. While there are probably many reasons for this a personal theory of mine (without any firm backing) is that Borderline Personality disorder is underdiagnosed in males. People with BPD are at a significantly higher risk of suicide, but very effective treatments exist namely dialectical behavioural therapy: a collection of emotional management and mindfulness exercises designed by a psychologists with BPD. The diagnostic criteria for BPD however, are heavily weighed towards symptoms associated with female socialisation. Even the treatment materials assume a female patient, which while not making them less effective is probably a hard sell to males in a sexist society.
- Gud 3y ago
  A very small subset of middle aged white men hold any power(in predominantly white countries). Most of us are just trying to get by
  - 4ggr0 3y ago
    Well, sure. Still, a middle aged white man probably has other kinds of privileges than a black transsexual woman. That's kinda my point. I'm not saying that white males don't have it hard but as a white male I never really had to face any kind of discrimination for being who I am. And if it happened it was mostly done by white, heterosexual men. I wonder why nobody is mentioning the reasons that these suicides happen and instead just talks about the raw numbers.
- whitepaint 3y ago
  We should not compare the magnitude of suffering based on race, sex or sexual orientation. That is how you divide people. That is how you alienate them. Telling those depressed white middle aged men that by default they have it easier because of history or because people at the top are usually white male might be one of main reasons they commit suicide the most.
  - 4ggr0 3y ago
    The difference is that most white men who kill themselves probably don't do it because they're white, heterosexual men. They do it because other aspects of their life, which is tragic in itself. On the other hand, people with other sexualities or non-cis people are being treated unfairly for who they are. That's why I didn't understand why you felt the need to mention white male suicides. It's pretty obvious that non-white, non-hetero people are being treated differently by default in our western societies. Plus, see this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36307885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36307885
sergioisidoro 3y ago
Comparing the suicide rate of those groups with middle aged white men (adjusted for the population size) is a bit silly. Some sources point to 40% of trans people having attempted suicide, and I don't think 40% of middle aged men have attempted suicide. In absolute numbers the suicide rate among men is an epidemic, but it's not fair to equate the two populations...
- flippinburgers 3y ago
  Uh. Ok so one groups rate of successful suicide is more important than the others. Gotcha. At least we can agree that it is an epidemic among white middle aged men.
  - ruszki 3y ago
    The mentioned statistics are not comparable, so there is no "more importance" regarding this.
    - flippinburgers 3y ago
      As if.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  Comparing rate of suicide to frequency of suicide attempts is dishonest. Histrionics grossly inflate the "attempt" rate. The most-dramatic demographic (teenagers) only succeeds 15% of the time, with 12.4% of teenaged girls attempting (5.3% for boys). Anything qualifies! I've got one who "attempted" suicide as a fucking negotiation tactic-- literally, "give me what I want or I'll kill myself." She's not trans, just Karen incarnate, and had no problems appropriating their "life-affirming care" argument to secure concessions for herself. Small wonder these numbers are so high-- it's a bullshit metric.
  - erhaetherth 3y ago
    Fwiw, sometimes they follow through.
hayst4ck 3y ago
Middle aged white men can be almost any of those things I listed. It floors me that you aren't flagged. Not because you mentioned middle aged white men (which I am), but because I am talking about reasons people get kicked out of the usually conservative communities they grow up in. Being a middle aged white man is not one of those reasons. Middle aged white men can choose their community. Being an atheist I was kicked out of mine. There's a difference between not choosing a community and not being welcome in it. Your response reeks of "white lives matter" to me.
- whitepaint 3y ago
  You try to measure the levels of suffering based on sex, race and sexual orientation. That is why you will not be taken seriously by people who think. https://www.google.com/search?q=gay+pride https://www.google.com/search?q=gay+pride - that looks like there is no community for feminists, gay and trans? You mentioning you being an atheist is just a cherry on top.

4ggr0 3y ago

[flagged]

ViscountPenguin 3y ago
Given what we know demographically about middle age white males (that they're relatively richer, more powerful e.t.c. than their peers) you can make some useful inferences about what doesn't work to decrease suicide risk. While there are probably many reasons for this a personal theory of mine (without any firm backing) is that Borderline Personality disorder is underdiagnosed in males. People with BPD are at a significantly higher risk of suicide, but very effective treatments exist namely dialectical behavioural therapy: a collection of emotional management and mindfulness exercises designed by a psychologists with BPD. The diagnostic criteria for BPD however, are heavily weighed towards symptoms associated with female socialisation. Even the treatment materials assume a female patient, which while not making them less effective is probably a hard sell to males in a sexist society.
Gud 3y ago
A very small subset of middle aged white men hold any power(in predominantly white countries). Most of us are just trying to get by
- 4ggr0 3y ago
  Well, sure. Still, a middle aged white man probably has other kinds of privileges than a black transsexual woman. That's kinda my point. I'm not saying that white males don't have it hard but as a white male I never really had to face any kind of discrimination for being who I am. And if it happened it was mostly done by white, heterosexual men. I wonder why nobody is mentioning the reasons that these suicides happen and instead just talks about the raw numbers.
whitepaint 3y ago
We should not compare the magnitude of suffering based on race, sex or sexual orientation. That is how you divide people. That is how you alienate them. Telling those depressed white middle aged men that by default they have it easier because of history or because people at the top are usually white male might be one of main reasons they commit suicide the most.
- 4ggr0 3y ago
  The difference is that most white men who kill themselves probably don't do it because they're white, heterosexual men. They do it because other aspects of their life, which is tragic in itself. On the other hand, people with other sexualities or non-cis people are being treated unfairly for who they are. That's why I didn't understand why you felt the need to mention white male suicides. It's pretty obvious that non-white, non-hetero people are being treated differently by default in our western societies. Plus, see this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36307885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36307885

sergioisidoro 3y ago

Comparing the suicide rate of those groups with middle aged white men (adjusted for the population size) is a bit silly. Some sources point to 40% of trans people having attempted suicide, and I don't think 40% of middle aged men have attempted suicide. In absolute numbers the suicide rate among men is an epidemic, but it's not fair to equate the two populations...

flippinburgers 3y ago
Uh. Ok so one groups rate of successful suicide is more important than the others. Gotcha. At least we can agree that it is an epidemic among white middle aged men.
- ruszki 3y ago
  The mentioned statistics are not comparable, so there is no "more importance" regarding this.
  - flippinburgers 3y ago
    As if.
jstarfish 3y ago
Comparing rate of suicide to frequency of suicide attempts is dishonest. Histrionics grossly inflate the "attempt" rate. The most-dramatic demographic (teenagers) only succeeds 15% of the time, with 12.4% of teenaged girls attempting (5.3% for boys). Anything qualifies! I've got one who "attempted" suicide as a fucking negotiation tactic-- literally, "give me what I want or I'll kill myself." She's not trans, just Karen incarnate, and had no problems appropriating their "life-affirming care" argument to secure concessions for herself. Small wonder these numbers are so high-- it's a bullshit metric.
- erhaetherth 3y ago
  Fwiw, sometimes they follow through.

hayst4ck 3y ago

Middle aged white men can be almost any of those things I listed. It floors me that you aren't flagged. Not because you mentioned middle aged white men (which I am), but because I am talking about reasons people get kicked out of the usually conservative communities they grow up in. Being a middle aged white man is not one of those reasons. Middle aged white men can choose their community. Being an atheist I was kicked out of mine. There's a difference between not choosing a community and not being welcome in it. Your response reeks of "white lives matter" to me.

whitepaint 3y ago
You try to measure the levels of suffering based on sex, race and sexual orientation. That is why you will not be taken seriously by people who think. https://www.google.com/search?q=gay+pride https://www.google.com/search?q=gay+pride - that looks like there is no community for feminists, gay and trans? You mentioning you being an atheist is just a cherry on top.