4 ms·

Then all drugs are too be banned. Intoxicants should never be given a green light. It is sad that libertarians are trying to argue for live and let live in the

Then all drugs are too be banned. Intoxicants should never be given a green light. It is sad that libertarians are trying to argue for live and let live in the case of drugs. Did they not learn from tobacco companies that commerce does not live and let live. They persuade petulantly until everyone is a customer. Nevermind if it is healthy. I'm going to be down voted by the drug loving crowd, but I won't stop fighting for people to see and understand that drugs should never be a commercialized enterprise.

ztrww 3y ago
the issue with tobacco is primarily its most prevalent consumption method. Nicotine is of course addictive but it’s not a particular dangerous and potential has some positive effects. Not that different to caffeine.
- nashashmi 3y ago
  Point isn’t about whether tobacco can be consumed in other forms. Point is that when there is an industry that revolves around the consumption of an item that industry will try to promote that item, even if it causes harm. Tobacco is one industry. oil is another. In such cases, why would you legalize intoxicants? you would only promote intoxicants that way.
  - ztrww 3y ago
    Nicotine or tobacco even are not intoxicants, strictly speaking. Also what you’re proposing seems like an extremely slippery slope. What’s the issue with intoxicants? They are harmful? Well a lot of things are.. why don’t we ban sugar, saturated fat, maybe all the things that encourages sedentary behavior? Television, sofas, comfy beds? All illegal. What’s the objective?
    - nashashmi 3y ago
      Are you arguing that they are equivalent to drugs?
      - ztrww 3y ago
        No, but I presumed you object to drugs due the negative social utility their usage leads to. Why is it any of your or mine business what substances people consume if they don’t hurt anyone by doing that?
maccard 3y ago
Where do you draw the line then? Caffeine? St Johns Wort? People take drugs, and they're going to do so whether they're legal or not. People have addictions and control issues with food too, we're not talking about banning MSG or sugar. The majority (not all) of the harm comes from the illegal market they exist in. A controlled environment can only make things safer for people, and provide a basis for supporting people with issues. This works everywhere it's been tried.
- zirgs 3y ago
  It's much harder to start using drugs if they are illegal. I, for example, have no idea where to buy heroin in my city. But buying alcohol and cigarettes is not a problem - just go to the nearest grocery store. Illegality creates lots of friction.
  - maccard 3y ago
    I don't know where to buy heroin, but I sure know that there's a sketchy dude hanging out near the toilets in a lot of bars who will sell cocaine to anyone who asks. As for it being harder to start - tell that to the 16 year olds who get their hands on alcohol. It certainly never stopped me.
  - jazzyjackson 3y ago
    > I, for example, have no idea where to buy heroin in my city. Have you tried asking around? :P
    - zirgs 3y ago
      I guess it's possible if you're in the right social circles. But as I said - this creates friction. Now you have to look for shady people or go to shady darknet markets, telegram groups, etc. And in many jurisdictions even purchase/usage can get you a criminal record. Or you can simply go to a grocery store and buy as much alcohol as you want.
      - 3y ago
dreadnip 3y ago
There is a big difference between drugs like alcohol and nicotine, which are extremely addicting and something like MDMA, which isn’t.
- ztrww 3y ago
  people don’t get lung cancer because of nicotine.
- jona-f 3y ago
  I'm very supportive of decriminalization of drug use, but calling MDMA not "extremely addicting" is just false and irresponsible. The first experience is especially great, so people usually start chasing after it. At least in a club setting. Of course there is a learning curve and most people get that you can have a profound experience only maybe once or twice a year.
  - pantalaimon 3y ago
    I think it’s different being 'addicted' to taking MDMA when in a club setting than other drugs where people addicted to them take them every day. MDMA is much too intense of an experience to integrate into the daily life of most people and there isn’t really a craving to take more once it has worn off.
  - Ingaz 3y ago
    More than that: MDMA is kind of "anti-addictive" drug. You try it first and feel that "MDMA magic". You try it again and yes, you still feel something pleasant but the magic is lost. Most probably forever. I heard it many times and experienced myself. In my late 20s MDMA did something wonderful for me. It was like going from BW interlaced 320p to TrueColor 4K. But it was 3-5 times most. Every 2-3 years I tried again but no luck
- nashashmi 3y ago
  Addiction should not be a factor in judging which drugs are harmful and which are not. If a drug intoxicates you, then it is bad.
pjc50 3y ago
The "war on drugs" has long since failed, but I think there's a valid point about controlling the advertising and marketing of substances.
- nashashmi 3y ago
  War on drugs tried to eliminate drug trade because it funded forces not friendly to the govt. Drug traffickers would do everything to increase their profit and fund their operations. This further supports the idea that commercialization of drugs only creates more problems.

ztrww 3y ago

the issue with tobacco is primarily its most prevalent consumption method. Nicotine is of course addictive but it’s not a particular dangerous and potential has some positive effects. Not that different to caffeine.

nashashmi 3y ago
Point isn’t about whether tobacco can be consumed in other forms. Point is that when there is an industry that revolves around the consumption of an item that industry will try to promote that item, even if it causes harm. Tobacco is one industry. oil is another. In such cases, why would you legalize intoxicants? you would only promote intoxicants that way.
- ztrww 3y ago
  Nicotine or tobacco even are not intoxicants, strictly speaking. Also what you’re proposing seems like an extremely slippery slope. What’s the issue with intoxicants? They are harmful? Well a lot of things are.. why don’t we ban sugar, saturated fat, maybe all the things that encourages sedentary behavior? Television, sofas, comfy beds? All illegal. What’s the objective?
  - nashashmi 3y ago
    Are you arguing that they are equivalent to drugs?
    - ztrww 3y ago
      No, but I presumed you object to drugs due the negative social utility their usage leads to. Why is it any of your or mine business what substances people consume if they don’t hurt anyone by doing that?

maccard 3y ago

Where do you draw the line then? Caffeine? St Johns Wort? People take drugs, and they're going to do so whether they're legal or not. People have addictions and control issues with food too, we're not talking about banning MSG or sugar. The majority (not all) of the harm comes from the illegal market they exist in. A controlled environment can only make things safer for people, and provide a basis for supporting people with issues. This works everywhere it's been tried.

zirgs 3y ago
It's much harder to start using drugs if they are illegal. I, for example, have no idea where to buy heroin in my city. But buying alcohol and cigarettes is not a problem - just go to the nearest grocery store. Illegality creates lots of friction.
- maccard 3y ago
  I don't know where to buy heroin, but I sure know that there's a sketchy dude hanging out near the toilets in a lot of bars who will sell cocaine to anyone who asks. As for it being harder to start - tell that to the 16 year olds who get their hands on alcohol. It certainly never stopped me.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  > I, for example, have no idea where to buy heroin in my city. Have you tried asking around? :P
  - zirgs 3y ago
    I guess it's possible if you're in the right social circles. But as I said - this creates friction. Now you have to look for shady people or go to shady darknet markets, telegram groups, etc. And in many jurisdictions even purchase/usage can get you a criminal record. Or you can simply go to a grocery store and buy as much alcohol as you want.
    - 3y ago

dreadnip 3y ago

There is a big difference between drugs like alcohol and nicotine, which are extremely addicting and something like MDMA, which isn’t.

ztrww 3y ago
people don’t get lung cancer because of nicotine.
jona-f 3y ago
I'm very supportive of decriminalization of drug use, but calling MDMA not "extremely addicting" is just false and irresponsible. The first experience is especially great, so people usually start chasing after it. At least in a club setting. Of course there is a learning curve and most people get that you can have a profound experience only maybe once or twice a year.
- pantalaimon 3y ago
  I think it’s different being 'addicted' to taking MDMA when in a club setting than other drugs where people addicted to them take them every day. MDMA is much too intense of an experience to integrate into the daily life of most people and there isn’t really a craving to take more once it has worn off.
- Ingaz 3y ago
  More than that: MDMA is kind of "anti-addictive" drug. You try it first and feel that "MDMA magic". You try it again and yes, you still feel something pleasant but the magic is lost. Most probably forever. I heard it many times and experienced myself. In my late 20s MDMA did something wonderful for me. It was like going from BW interlaced 320p to TrueColor 4K. But it was 3-5 times most. Every 2-3 years I tried again but no luck
nashashmi 3y ago
Addiction should not be a factor in judging which drugs are harmful and which are not. If a drug intoxicates you, then it is bad.

pjc50 3y ago

The "war on drugs" has long since failed, but I think there's a valid point about controlling the advertising and marketing of substances.

nashashmi 3y ago
War on drugs tried to eliminate drug trade because it funded forces not friendly to the govt. Drug traffickers would do everything to increase their profit and fund their operations. This further supports the idea that commercialization of drugs only creates more problems.