3 ms·

> But a completely valid model is actually that no, the genocide joke is the transgression and the one making it the transgressor. The transgression is on thos

> But a completely valid model is actually that no, the genocide joke is the transgression and the one making it the transgressor. The transgression is on those who carry out the genocide. There is no model where reminding someone of the existence of something is a transgression.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
Sure there's a model for that, that's why people give trigger warnings before going into discussions about take for example. You might not agree with it but there's definitely a model that many people subscribe to. People suffering the trauma of conflict can be hurt by harsh words. It's a choice to consider them or not when you speak.
- randomdata 3y ago
  Words can hurt, but that does not mean the formulation of the words is the transgression. Words only hurt when they speak to truth and what underlies a truth that hurts is where you find the transgression. It is your choice whether or not you choose to help work towards ending the transgression. Going about your day pretending something doesn't exist doesn't accomplish anything. If you need to subscribe to that model to hide from yourself from the fact that you don't actually care, it is your life to live, but it is not a model that works beyond one's self. The disingenuity is out there for everyone else.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    I disagree. Words can certainly be transgressive given certain company or context. Being sensitive to the feelings of others doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to fighting against hatred and injustice. The fact that trigger warnings exist and are in use in many places is evidence of the existence of this model.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      There is only so much time in the day. Every minute spent in idle chit-chat where one might blurt out the wrong thing is time not spent dealing with the actual problem. Indeed, it is a mutually exclusive situation. It is not possible to do both at the same time. There is no denying the existence of the model, but it is used to try and hide from oneself that one doesn't actually care and would rather take the fun road of talking about it instead. Which is fine. It is your life to live and if that is what it takes to get through the day, so be it. It is not the altruistic behaviour you are trying to make it out to be, however.
      - AlecSchueler 3y ago
        I'm not arguing for or against any model of behaviour. Like I said above these are choices that people are free to weigh up and do as they see best. I'm simply responding to "There is no model where reminding someone of the existence of something is a transgression" but we seem to have reached an agreement that there is.
        randomdata 3y ago
        We have always acknowledged that people will set up walls to hide from themselves. It is not clear how you think that equates to a transgression. It is likely a fundamental aspect of the human experience.
        AlecSchueler 3y ago
        It can be seen as a transgression because you're knowingly choosing words that will cause someone distress. In my experience people are normally careful about what kind of jokes they make around someone who has suffered a traumatic experience, an "there's a time and a place" kind of thing. I believe many people would find it transgressive to make jokes about public transport around someone whose child had recently been killed by a bus. You can see this even in popular culture. I'd give the famous "Don't mention the war" episode of Fawlty Towers as an example. I think it's part of the human experience to exhibit sensitivity towards others and to reflect that in your language.

AlecSchueler 3y ago

Sure there's a model for that, that's why people give trigger warnings before going into discussions about take for example. You might not agree with it but there's definitely a model that many people subscribe to. People suffering the trauma of conflict can be hurt by harsh words. It's a choice to consider them or not when you speak.

randomdata 3y ago
Words can hurt, but that does not mean the formulation of the words is the transgression. Words only hurt when they speak to truth and what underlies a truth that hurts is where you find the transgression. It is your choice whether or not you choose to help work towards ending the transgression. Going about your day pretending something doesn't exist doesn't accomplish anything. If you need to subscribe to that model to hide from yourself from the fact that you don't actually care, it is your life to live, but it is not a model that works beyond one's self. The disingenuity is out there for everyone else.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  I disagree. Words can certainly be transgressive given certain company or context. Being sensitive to the feelings of others doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to fighting against hatred and injustice. The fact that trigger warnings exist and are in use in many places is evidence of the existence of this model.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    There is only so much time in the day. Every minute spent in idle chit-chat where one might blurt out the wrong thing is time not spent dealing with the actual problem. Indeed, it is a mutually exclusive situation. It is not possible to do both at the same time. There is no denying the existence of the model, but it is used to try and hide from oneself that one doesn't actually care and would rather take the fun road of talking about it instead. Which is fine. It is your life to live and if that is what it takes to get through the day, so be it. It is not the altruistic behaviour you are trying to make it out to be, however.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      I'm not arguing for or against any model of behaviour. Like I said above these are choices that people are free to weigh up and do as they see best. I'm simply responding to "There is no model where reminding someone of the existence of something is a transgression" but we seem to have reached an agreement that there is.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        We have always acknowledged that people will set up walls to hide from themselves. It is not clear how you think that equates to a transgression. It is likely a fundamental aspect of the human experience.
        AlecSchueler 3y ago
        It can be seen as a transgression because you're knowingly choosing words that will cause someone distress. In my experience people are normally careful about what kind of jokes they make around someone who has suffered a traumatic experience, an "there's a time and a place" kind of thing. I believe many people would find it transgressive to make jokes about public transport around someone whose child had recently been killed by a bus. You can see this even in popular culture. I'd give the famous "Don't mention the war" episode of Fawlty Towers as an example. I think it's part of the human experience to exhibit sensitivity towards others and to reflect that in your language.