5 ms·

Do you think that if the SEC thinks that Coinbase is operating some sort of unregulated securities exchange, that they should bring some sort of enforcement act

by growse 3y ago

Do you think that if the SEC thinks that Coinbase is operating some sort of unregulated securities exchange, that they should bring some sort of enforcement action?

bb88 3y ago
Also do you think that if Coinbase admitted that the SEC might take adverse regulatory action in the S1, should anyone be surprised when the SEC actually does?
friend_and_foe 3y ago
Yes, but I think first, they ought to tell us what their criteria is in no uncertain terms.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  Sorry but law enforcement entities do not have a mandate for, nor are they required to, tell you specifically whether an act is expressly legal or illegal if you ask them. Call a police department and ask them if you are allowed to bury your recently deceased relative on your property. They will tell you to get a lawyer. If they feel like arresting you for illegal disposal of human remains you can't use the defense 'but I asked them and they wouldn't tell me'.
  - junofan 3y ago
    Come on. The SEC is also a regulatory agency. Your police department isn’t.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      This changes what, exactly? Are you suggesting that the government act as a free lawyer to everyone asking? Example: 'Would it be fraud if I bought an Amazon gift card with my credit card and sold it for cash since that would be a cash advance but it went through as a regular purchase?' Would you expect that the FTC answer that question for you in a binding way?
      - throwaway6977 3y ago
        In a rational world I would absolutely expect the authorities that bind me to answer basic questions about following the rules.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        You want to hand judicial authority to regulatory agencies?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I don't think I said that. You seem to be setting up a(nother) false dichotomy here as if there can only be one end of the spectrum or the other, with no grey area or nuance in-between.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        What is a grey area for 'makes a binding ruling regarding interpretation of law'?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to answer that for you in a binding way.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        I love it when people refuse to follow the logical conclusion of their own argument and then act like they are being clever when they stonewall with that logical conclusion without realizing what they just did.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        You have fallen into the trap of thinking that government bodies tasked with such things should be providing you a customer service -- but they are providing society with a customer service and you are treated as a road would be treated by the government, not as a driver would be treated. Note: by 'you' I mean if you were in the position of a regulated entity.
  - sebzim4500 3y ago
    I think there is a very important difference here, specifically that the police department is not going around deciding what is and isn't legal but the SEC is deciding what is and isn't a security.
    - growse 3y ago
      The police department absolutely exercise discretion over what they choose to arrest people for and what they don't. The SEC is not deciding what is legal or not, they're deciding whether or not to bring an enforcement action. The court decides if that is legal.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    IDK, you can ask polish tax authority for a individual interpretation of law and it's binding in court.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      The US IRS also has this; a “Private Letter Ruling”. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-brief-primer https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-br...
- simiones 3y ago
  But they have, repeatedly, haven't they? Crypto coins except for Bitcoin are securities, and must be treated as such. Any business allowing for their trade must behave like any other securities trade business.
  - PretzelPirate 3y ago
    They haven't said that all coins other than Bitcoin are securities. They've said that most coins are securities, and former SEC members have said that Eth isn't a security, but the current SEC isn't commenting on Eth at all. They have muddied the waters with their public comments. Hopefully these lawsuits will provide better clarity or we'll have to wait on pending legislation to provide clarity on how the US views decentralized asset classification.

by growse 3y ago

Do you think that if the SEC thinks that Coinbase is operating some sort of unregulated securities exchange, that they should bring some sort of enforcement action?

bb88 3y ago

Also do you think that if Coinbase admitted that the SEC might take adverse regulatory action in the S1, should anyone be surprised when the SEC actually does?

friend_and_foe 3y ago

Yes, but I think first, they ought to tell us what their criteria is in no uncertain terms.

Eisenstein 3y ago
Sorry but law enforcement entities do not have a mandate for, nor are they required to, tell you specifically whether an act is expressly legal or illegal if you ask them. Call a police department and ask them if you are allowed to bury your recently deceased relative on your property. They will tell you to get a lawyer. If they feel like arresting you for illegal disposal of human remains you can't use the defense 'but I asked them and they wouldn't tell me'.
- junofan 3y ago
  Come on. The SEC is also a regulatory agency. Your police department isn’t.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    This changes what, exactly? Are you suggesting that the government act as a free lawyer to everyone asking? Example: 'Would it be fraud if I bought an Amazon gift card with my credit card and sold it for cash since that would be a cash advance but it went through as a regular purchase?' Would you expect that the FTC answer that question for you in a binding way?
    - throwaway6977 3y ago
      In a rational world I would absolutely expect the authorities that bind me to answer basic questions about following the rules.
      - Eisenstein 3y ago
        You want to hand judicial authority to regulatory agencies?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I don't think I said that. You seem to be setting up a(nother) false dichotomy here as if there can only be one end of the spectrum or the other, with no grey area or nuance in-between.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        What is a grey area for 'makes a binding ruling regarding interpretation of law'?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to answer that for you in a binding way.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        I love it when people refuse to follow the logical conclusion of their own argument and then act like they are being clever when they stonewall with that logical conclusion without realizing what they just did.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        You have fallen into the trap of thinking that government bodies tasked with such things should be providing you a customer service -- but they are providing society with a customer service and you are treated as a road would be treated by the government, not as a driver would be treated. Note: by 'you' I mean if you were in the position of a regulated entity.
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  I think there is a very important difference here, specifically that the police department is not going around deciding what is and isn't legal but the SEC is deciding what is and isn't a security.
  - growse 3y ago
    The police department absolutely exercise discretion over what they choose to arrest people for and what they don't. The SEC is not deciding what is legal or not, they're deciding whether or not to bring an enforcement action. The court decides if that is legal.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  IDK, you can ask polish tax authority for a individual interpretation of law and it's binding in court.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    The US IRS also has this; a “Private Letter Ruling”. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-brief-primer https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-br...
simiones 3y ago
But they have, repeatedly, haven't they? Crypto coins except for Bitcoin are securities, and must be treated as such. Any business allowing for their trade must behave like any other securities trade business.
- PretzelPirate 3y ago
  They haven't said that all coins other than Bitcoin are securities. They've said that most coins are securities, and former SEC members have said that Eth isn't a security, but the current SEC isn't commenting on Eth at all. They have muddied the waters with their public comments. Hopefully these lawsuits will provide better clarity or we'll have to wait on pending legislation to provide clarity on how the US views decentralized asset classification.