8 ms·

Please, call a spade a spade

63 points by benwerd 15y ago

mmuro 15y ago
It is refreshing to see this from Microsoft, but the comparison is inevitably going to be made with Apple. And that's not a bad thing. Mail, Contacts, Messages, iTunes, iPhoto, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, etc. Yeah, there's a little bit of branding in there but the "spade is a spade" argument still stands. Microsoft is making the right call here.
timClicks 15y ago
The essence of trade mark law is that similar products should have different names, so that consumers can distinguish between them. Calling a photo gallery application "Photos" is great until the next trader wants to build a photo gallery application.
- JumpCrisscross 15y ago
  You buy Windows. They're not re-branding Windows "OS". Once you have Windows the features in the OS don't have to keep competing for your attention as furiously.
  - wmf 15y ago
    I think you've gotten to the real point. Apps like Mail, Photos, etc. are not standalone products; they're just features of Windows.
larrik 15y ago
I don't know. I really like being able to Google for a product's name and get mostly-relevant results.
- wmf 15y ago
  Now Windows users can suffer along with Mac users. "What email software do you use?" "Mail." "Yes, but which one?"
  - tree_of_item 15y ago
    This is why "Mail" is namespaced by "Apple" or "Microsoft" or some other such thing. That is, you don't say "Docs", you say "Google Docs".
  - meatmanek 15y ago
    I'm already in the habit of calling Mail.app Mail.app, so it seems reasonable to call Mail.exe Mail.exe.
cenuij 15y ago
Quite a fleshless piece, but surprisingly easy to pick at. > Authentically digital interfaces. The linked aside that was meant to qualify this blander than twilight statement really doesn't qualify anything. The linked article has plenty of quite tasteful screenshots of things that bear no resemblance to the gaudy morris dance that is the metro interface. And the brief and unsatisfying technicalities only serve to highlight the confusion and uncertainty over where Microsoft wants it's developers to be investing. What does "authentically digital" suppose to mean anyway? > Simplified Windows 8 branding Well this is not really a simple problem. I think pretty much 90% of the online world assumed after a while the window's logo was a flag. The wavy pixelated contrails, the "flag" screensaver, the flag-like symbols across it's products for years. To claim that it was not a meant to be a flag is understandable and perhaps quite correct, but to then make the logo look more like a flag than ever before just screams mixed metaphors. I understand the Shetland Islands are both delighted and horrified. And the colour? Mine eyes doth protest. I think Microsoft have been making great strides to address the stagnation that was prevalent for so long in much of their product range, but their marketing & pr is letting them down. I would love to see the billing for that design: "It's not a flag, make it look like it's not a flag", "how about this flag design?", "OK, looks cool, can you make the blue a little brighter? My kids love bright colours".
- homosaur 15y ago
  Hard to argue with that. I like their moves but where is the messaging? Other than launches, I don't see MS ads anywhere.
- mitchellhislop 15y ago
  On your first point - they are doing away with the skeuomorphism that some of their UI had. (I totally agree with the rest of your critique.)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
homosaur 15y ago
Given that Microsoft still has a boatload of money, market share, and deep-profit products, you have to really give them props for realizing that doesn't really mean that much to the future. Their product lineup has always been confusing, they've been pimping that awful "Windows Live" brand for years, and their branding has been a mess. Worse yet, for a long time their products were not up to standards. You can love Microsoft products or hat em but it's hard to argue that they aren't taking on all of these issues head first. Xbox is probably the premier home entertainment product on the market, Windows Phone is actually really good now, and much of the problems with Windows from horrible security to poor performance have really been improved. No one should underestimate how hard it is to admit your company kind of sucks, especially when you are still raking in billions. They deserve a lot of credit.
- twelvechairs 15y ago
  Yes - Microsoft are improving, and props to the people in the company who have done this... ... but it sure took them long enough. Where did all those profits actually go? not much into innovation...
hemancuso 15y ago
This strikes me as terrible advice for startups. "Microsoft" is an extremely well known brand name. Standing behind that name rather than diluting it with 10 other sub-brands makes a lot of sense. But if Instagram called itself "Camera" or "Camera Filter" or "Social Camera" or something exceedingly simple, it would not likely have caught the same traction. The name Instragram has now come to mean something unique. The same way the word "Microsoft" is now loaded with all sorts of connotations. I agree that forcing users into a new vocabulary doesn't make much sense, but startups need to differentiate themselves on branding. Throwing in a word like "tweet" to compliment "twitter" makes a lot of sense.
- benwerd 15y ago
  I don't disagree with you at all. Updated my post to make that clearer.
- Bud 15y ago
  I think you're missing the point. Choosing ONE brand name and making it stick = good. Choosing seven words where one would do = bad. For instance, I just found myself browsing through a list of new Microsoft products. I found a mouse there called the "Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 3500 Limited Edition". That's just hilarious. Anyone can see that that's hilarious, and not effective branding.
  - function_seven 15y ago
    My first laugh-out-loud experience with this was the Samsung Galaxy S2 Epic 4G Touch. That's exactly how the TV adverts introduced it. I couldn't keep up.
    - moe 15y ago
      Samsung really has a knack for branding, I especially like their Nexus line. There's the Nexus One, the Nexus S, the Galaxy Nexus and the Galaxy Nexus S, the Galaxy S, the Galaxy S Plus and the Galaxy S2. Give or take a few...
Bud 15y ago
I very much agree with most of this post. Now, choosing names which are much less annoying than their old, tired, 1980s-esque names will not make their crappy products magically transform into good products. But it's a start. Good choices beget good choices.
dotBen 15y ago
I used to unknowingly use the phrase communicated in the headline of this post until someone told me it originates from the era of black slavery and thus has a racial connotation.
- DanBC 15y ago
  Be cautious about "folk etymology"; especially if it's talking about racist origins for common expressions. See also "Nitty gritty". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade) > The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur against African Americans, which was not recorded until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the slur. Nitty Gritty: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1988776.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1988776.stm) (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html)
- anateus 15y ago
  That is folk etymology, it has nothing to do with slavery. Refer here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade Summary: The origin is actually a slight mistranslation of Plutarch line, and it was introduced into English in 1542.
  - aidenn0 15y ago
    Just don't use anything with a folk etymology if you're a politician: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22#David_Howard_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%2...
- benwerd 15y ago
  Stephen Downes emailed me personally about that. I'm mortified. I've changed the title and have left a note, and am in the process of editing the text. The phrase predates the racist connotation, but nonetheless, I'm more than uncomfortable with the association.
apenwarr 15y ago
I'm kind of sad that everyone here seems to think overcomplicated names like "Windows Live Messenger" and "Microsoft Office Word" have been around forever, and we're now finally seeing Microsoft come to their senses. As I understand it, Microsoft was the originator of simple product names. Remember Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft SQL, Microsoft Mail? It all started to go crazy around the time the monopoly controls kicked in. Personally, I think the crazy-long names were created so that in case the government decided to split them up, the names would be the suggested guidelines. ie. "Microsoft Office xxx" is one company, "Windows xxx" is another company. Oh, "Windows xxx" is too big? Well then how about "Windows Live xxx" and "Windows not-Live yyy"? And so on. Now that the DoJ has finally gotten off their back, they have not-so-shockingly started to go back to a sensible naming scheme.

63 points by benwerd 15y ago

mmuro 15y ago

It is refreshing to see this from Microsoft, but the comparison is inevitably going to be made with Apple. And that's not a bad thing. Mail, Contacts, Messages, iTunes, iPhoto, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, etc. Yeah, there's a little bit of branding in there but the "spade is a spade" argument still stands. Microsoft is making the right call here.

timClicks 15y ago

The essence of trade mark law is that similar products should have different names, so that consumers can distinguish between them. Calling a photo gallery application "Photos" is great until the next trader wants to build a photo gallery application.

JumpCrisscross 15y ago
You buy Windows. They're not re-branding Windows "OS". Once you have Windows the features in the OS don't have to keep competing for your attention as furiously.
- wmf 15y ago
  I think you've gotten to the real point. Apps like Mail, Photos, etc. are not standalone products; they're just features of Windows.

larrik 15y ago

I don't know. I really like being able to Google for a product's name and get mostly-relevant results.

wmf 15y ago
Now Windows users can suffer along with Mac users. "What email software do you use?" "Mail." "Yes, but which one?"
- tree_of_item 15y ago
  This is why "Mail" is namespaced by "Apple" or "Microsoft" or some other such thing. That is, you don't say "Docs", you say "Google Docs".
- meatmanek 15y ago
  I'm already in the habit of calling Mail.app Mail.app, so it seems reasonable to call Mail.exe Mail.exe.

cenuij 15y ago

Quite a fleshless piece, but surprisingly easy to pick at. > Authentically digital interfaces. The linked aside that was meant to qualify this blander than twilight statement really doesn't qualify anything. The linked article has plenty of quite tasteful screenshots of things that bear no resemblance to the gaudy morris dance that is the metro interface. And the brief and unsatisfying technicalities only serve to highlight the confusion and uncertainty over where Microsoft wants it's developers to be investing. What does "authentically digital" suppose to mean anyway? > Simplified Windows 8 branding Well this is not really a simple problem. I think pretty much 90% of the online world assumed after a while the window's logo was a flag. The wavy pixelated contrails, the "flag" screensaver, the flag-like symbols across it's products for years. To claim that it was not a meant to be a flag is understandable and perhaps quite correct, but to then make the logo look more like a flag than ever before just screams mixed metaphors. I understand the Shetland Islands are both delighted and horrified. And the colour? Mine eyes doth protest. I think Microsoft have been making great strides to address the stagnation that was prevalent for so long in much of their product range, but their marketing & pr is letting them down. I would love to see the billing for that design: "It's not a flag, make it look like it's not a flag", "how about this flag design?", "OK, looks cool, can you make the blue a little brighter? My kids love bright colours".

homosaur 15y ago
Hard to argue with that. I like their moves but where is the messaging? Other than launches, I don't see MS ads anywhere.
mitchellhislop 15y ago
On your first point - they are doing away with the skeuomorphism that some of their UI had. (I totally agree with the rest of your critique.)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

homosaur 15y ago

Given that Microsoft still has a boatload of money, market share, and deep-profit products, you have to really give them props for realizing that doesn't really mean that much to the future. Their product lineup has always been confusing, they've been pimping that awful "Windows Live" brand for years, and their branding has been a mess. Worse yet, for a long time their products were not up to standards. You can love Microsoft products or hat em but it's hard to argue that they aren't taking on all of these issues head first. Xbox is probably the premier home entertainment product on the market, Windows Phone is actually really good now, and much of the problems with Windows from horrible security to poor performance have really been improved. No one should underestimate how hard it is to admit your company kind of sucks, especially when you are still raking in billions. They deserve a lot of credit.

twelvechairs 15y ago
Yes - Microsoft are improving, and props to the people in the company who have done this... ... but it sure took them long enough. Where did all those profits actually go? not much into innovation...

hemancuso 15y ago

This strikes me as terrible advice for startups. "Microsoft" is an extremely well known brand name. Standing behind that name rather than diluting it with 10 other sub-brands makes a lot of sense. But if Instagram called itself "Camera" or "Camera Filter" or "Social Camera" or something exceedingly simple, it would not likely have caught the same traction. The name Instragram has now come to mean something unique. The same way the word "Microsoft" is now loaded with all sorts of connotations. I agree that forcing users into a new vocabulary doesn't make much sense, but startups need to differentiate themselves on branding. Throwing in a word like "tweet" to compliment "twitter" makes a lot of sense.

benwerd 15y ago
I don't disagree with you at all. Updated my post to make that clearer.
Bud 15y ago
I think you're missing the point. Choosing ONE brand name and making it stick = good. Choosing seven words where one would do = bad. For instance, I just found myself browsing through a list of new Microsoft products. I found a mouse there called the "Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 3500 Limited Edition". That's just hilarious. Anyone can see that that's hilarious, and not effective branding.
- function_seven 15y ago
  My first laugh-out-loud experience with this was the Samsung Galaxy S2 Epic 4G Touch. That's exactly how the TV adverts introduced it. I couldn't keep up.
  - moe 15y ago
    Samsung really has a knack for branding, I especially like their Nexus line. There's the Nexus One, the Nexus S, the Galaxy Nexus and the Galaxy Nexus S, the Galaxy S, the Galaxy S Plus and the Galaxy S2. Give or take a few...

Bud 15y ago

I very much agree with most of this post. Now, choosing names which are much less annoying than their old, tired, 1980s-esque names will not make their crappy products magically transform into good products. But it's a start. Good choices beget good choices.

dotBen 15y ago

I used to unknowingly use the phrase communicated in the headline of this post until someone told me it originates from the era of black slavery and thus has a racial connotation.

DanBC 15y ago
Be cautious about "folk etymology"; especially if it's talking about racist origins for common expressions. See also "Nitty gritty". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade) > The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur against African Americans, which was not recorded until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the slur. Nitty Gritty: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1988776.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1988776.stm) (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html)
anateus 15y ago
That is folk etymology, it has nothing to do with slavery. Refer here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade Summary: The origin is actually a slight mistranslation of Plutarch line, and it was introduced into English in 1542.
- aidenn0 15y ago
  Just don't use anything with a folk etymology if you're a politician: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22#David_Howard_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%2...
benwerd 15y ago
Stephen Downes emailed me personally about that. I'm mortified. I've changed the title and have left a note, and am in the process of editing the text. The phrase predates the racist connotation, but nonetheless, I'm more than uncomfortable with the association.

apenwarr 15y ago

I'm kind of sad that everyone here seems to think overcomplicated names like "Windows Live Messenger" and "Microsoft Office Word" have been around forever, and we're now finally seeing Microsoft come to their senses. As I understand it, Microsoft was the originator of simple product names. Remember Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft SQL, Microsoft Mail? It all started to go crazy around the time the monopoly controls kicked in. Personally, I think the crazy-long names were created so that in case the government decided to split them up, the names would be the suggested guidelines. ie. "Microsoft Office xxx" is one company, "Windows xxx" is another company. Oh, "Windows xxx" is too big? Well then how about "Windows Live xxx" and "Windows not-Live yyy"? And so on. Now that the DoJ has finally gotten off their back, they have not-so-shockingly started to go back to a sensible naming scheme.