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I did... the article lists several examples with the claim that the SEC cannot be expected to understand every business under the sun before approving a public

I did... the article lists several examples with the claim that the SEC cannot be expected to understand every business under the sun before approving a public sale, completely ignoring the fact that in this case, knowing if a company is operating as an unregistered securities exchange is their supposed expertise and reason to exist. Did you read it?

growse 3y ago
Do you think that if the SEC thinks that Coinbase is operating some sort of unregulated securities exchange, that they should bring some sort of enforcement action?
- bb88 3y ago
  Also do you think that if Coinbase admitted that the SEC might take adverse regulatory action in the S1, should anyone be surprised when the SEC actually does?
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  Yes, but I think first, they ought to tell us what their criteria is in no uncertain terms.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    Sorry but law enforcement entities do not have a mandate for, nor are they required to, tell you specifically whether an act is expressly legal or illegal if you ask them. Call a police department and ask them if you are allowed to bury your recently deceased relative on your property. They will tell you to get a lawyer. If they feel like arresting you for illegal disposal of human remains you can't use the defense 'but I asked them and they wouldn't tell me'.
    - junofan 3y ago
      Come on. The SEC is also a regulatory agency. Your police department isn’t.
      - Eisenstein 3y ago
        This changes what, exactly? Are you suggesting that the government act as a free lawyer to everyone asking? Example: 'Would it be fraud if I bought an Amazon gift card with my credit card and sold it for cash since that would be a cash advance but it went through as a regular purchase?' Would you expect that the FTC answer that question for you in a binding way?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        In a rational world I would absolutely expect the authorities that bind me to answer basic questions about following the rules.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        You want to hand judicial authority to regulatory agencies?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I don't think I said that. You seem to be setting up a(nother) false dichotomy here as if there can only be one end of the spectrum or the other, with no grey area or nuance in-between.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        What is a grey area for 'makes a binding ruling regarding interpretation of law'?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to answer that for you in a binding way.
    - sebzim4500 3y ago
      I think there is a very important difference here, specifically that the police department is not going around deciding what is and isn't legal but the SEC is deciding what is and isn't a security.
      - growse 3y ago
        The police department absolutely exercise discretion over what they choose to arrest people for and what they don't. The SEC is not deciding what is legal or not, they're deciding whether or not to bring an enforcement action. The court decides if that is legal.
    - KptMarchewa 3y ago
      IDK, you can ask polish tax authority for a individual interpretation of law and it's binding in court.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        The US IRS also has this; a “Private Letter Ruling”. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-brief-primer https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-br...
  - simiones 3y ago
    But they have, repeatedly, haven't they? Crypto coins except for Bitcoin are securities, and must be treated as such. Any business allowing for their trade must behave like any other securities trade business.
    - PretzelPirate 3y ago
      They haven't said that all coins other than Bitcoin are securities. They've said that most coins are securities, and former SEC members have said that Eth isn't a security, but the current SEC isn't commenting on Eth at all. They have muddied the waters with their public comments. Hopefully these lawsuits will provide better clarity or we'll have to wait on pending legislation to provide clarity on how the US views decentralized asset classification.

growse 3y ago

Do you think that if the SEC thinks that Coinbase is operating some sort of unregulated securities exchange, that they should bring some sort of enforcement action?

bb88 3y ago
Also do you think that if Coinbase admitted that the SEC might take adverse regulatory action in the S1, should anyone be surprised when the SEC actually does?
friend_and_foe 3y ago
Yes, but I think first, they ought to tell us what their criteria is in no uncertain terms.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  Sorry but law enforcement entities do not have a mandate for, nor are they required to, tell you specifically whether an act is expressly legal or illegal if you ask them. Call a police department and ask them if you are allowed to bury your recently deceased relative on your property. They will tell you to get a lawyer. If they feel like arresting you for illegal disposal of human remains you can't use the defense 'but I asked them and they wouldn't tell me'.
  - junofan 3y ago
    Come on. The SEC is also a regulatory agency. Your police department isn’t.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      This changes what, exactly? Are you suggesting that the government act as a free lawyer to everyone asking? Example: 'Would it be fraud if I bought an Amazon gift card with my credit card and sold it for cash since that would be a cash advance but it went through as a regular purchase?' Would you expect that the FTC answer that question for you in a binding way?
      - throwaway6977 3y ago
        In a rational world I would absolutely expect the authorities that bind me to answer basic questions about following the rules.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        You want to hand judicial authority to regulatory agencies?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I don't think I said that. You seem to be setting up a(nother) false dichotomy here as if there can only be one end of the spectrum or the other, with no grey area or nuance in-between.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        What is a grey area for 'makes a binding ruling regarding interpretation of law'?
        throwaway6977 3y ago
        I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to answer that for you in a binding way.
  - sebzim4500 3y ago
    I think there is a very important difference here, specifically that the police department is not going around deciding what is and isn't legal but the SEC is deciding what is and isn't a security.
    - growse 3y ago
      The police department absolutely exercise discretion over what they choose to arrest people for and what they don't. The SEC is not deciding what is legal or not, they're deciding whether or not to bring an enforcement action. The court decides if that is legal.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    IDK, you can ask polish tax authority for a individual interpretation of law and it's binding in court.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      The US IRS also has this; a “Private Letter Ruling”. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-brief-primer https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-irs-guidance-a-br...
- simiones 3y ago
  But they have, repeatedly, haven't they? Crypto coins except for Bitcoin are securities, and must be treated as such. Any business allowing for their trade must behave like any other securities trade business.
  - PretzelPirate 3y ago
    They haven't said that all coins other than Bitcoin are securities. They've said that most coins are securities, and former SEC members have said that Eth isn't a security, but the current SEC isn't commenting on Eth at all. They have muddied the waters with their public comments. Hopefully these lawsuits will provide better clarity or we'll have to wait on pending legislation to provide clarity on how the US views decentralized asset classification.