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language is just concepts. understanding language and understanding concepts is the same thing. to think one can understand language and not understand concept

language is just concepts. understanding language and understanding concepts is the same thing. to think one can understand language and not understand concepts is to not understand language.

namaria 3y ago
> understanding language and understanding concepts is the same thing It most definitely is not. Are you not aware of non-verbal modes of cognition? I can recall and process physical processes, complex emotional experiences, without using language. I'm willing to bet you, and everyone else, can too. > to think one can understand language and not understand concepts is to not understand language. This is circular logic. We have material evidence of a system that can competently handle language, while falling short of understanding even basic underlying arithmetic, logic, etc.
- zogrodea 3y ago
  Corroborating the first point with an example. "There is a story that Buddha once, at the climax of a philosophical discussion, broke into gesture-language as an Oxford philosopher may break into Greek: he took a flower in his hand, and looked at it; one of his disciples smiled, and the master said to him, ‘You have understood me.’
  - namaria 3y ago
    If any philosophy ever convinced me there is cognition beyond language, it's Buddhism. I really take it to heart. Whenever I'm experiencing psychic pain I usually realize I'm trying to hold on to some belief or feeling related to my ego and if I can convince myself it's not important for me to hold on to that, the pain melts away...
    - zogrodea 3y ago
      I’m sorry to hear of your pain but it’s good to hear you’re managing to cope with it. Buddhism is an interesting philosophy definitely. It had an influence on David Hume’s bundle theory (that an object is just a collection of properties, instead of having a single substance that persists as the object’s properties change). That recently reminded me of structural vs physical/referential equality in programming. It’s kind of weird come to think of it that an atheist like Hume was so heavily influenced by “religion” come to think of it (some ideas like his version of Occasionalism were influenced by Islamic philosophers too). Didn’t notice the before.

language is just concepts. understanding language and understanding concepts is the same thing. to think one can understand language and not understand concepts is to not understand language.

namaria 3y ago

> understanding language and understanding concepts is the same thing It most definitely is not. Are you not aware of non-verbal modes of cognition? I can recall and process physical processes, complex emotional experiences, without using language. I'm willing to bet you, and everyone else, can too. > to think one can understand language and not understand concepts is to not understand language. This is circular logic. We have material evidence of a system that can competently handle language, while falling short of understanding even basic underlying arithmetic, logic, etc.

zogrodea 3y ago
Corroborating the first point with an example. "There is a story that Buddha once, at the climax of a philosophical discussion, broke into gesture-language as an Oxford philosopher may break into Greek: he took a flower in his hand, and looked at it; one of his disciples smiled, and the master said to him, ‘You have understood me.’
- namaria 3y ago
  If any philosophy ever convinced me there is cognition beyond language, it's Buddhism. I really take it to heart. Whenever I'm experiencing psychic pain I usually realize I'm trying to hold on to some belief or feeling related to my ego and if I can convince myself it's not important for me to hold on to that, the pain melts away...
  - zogrodea 3y ago
    I’m sorry to hear of your pain but it’s good to hear you’re managing to cope with it. Buddhism is an interesting philosophy definitely. It had an influence on David Hume’s bundle theory (that an object is just a collection of properties, instead of having a single substance that persists as the object’s properties change). That recently reminded me of structural vs physical/referential equality in programming. It’s kind of weird come to think of it that an atheist like Hume was so heavily influenced by “religion” come to think of it (some ideas like his version of Occasionalism were influenced by Islamic philosophers too). Didn’t notice the before.