4 ms·

How does one fix expensive education and a cartel limiting the number of qualified doctors with immigration? Why would I, a qualified and respected doctor in m

How does one fix expensive education and a cartel limiting the number of qualified doctors with immigration? Why would I, a qualified and respected doctor in my country want to move to the US (or Canada) if it involves going through 4 more years of bullshit just to get re-qualified for a system that adds even more red-tape, expenses, and middle-men between me and the patient? I know, you're probably saying, "oh, but so many people have" - but hey, that was in the past. Unless my country is getting bombed to hell, I'm probably making a damn good living where I am, because, guess what? There's a shortage of doctors everywhere outside of Cuba!

mwbajor 3y ago
You don't. Immigration is not a "solves all problems" solution. Its a "drive down wages so that we live in a 3rd world country like the immigrants we are paying" solution. I used to be a big libertarian proponent for immigration and now I've become the complete opposite after seeing how much money wall street (and almost exclusively corporate special interests) puts into increasing immigration.
- AnishLaddha 3y ago
  can you be more specific in how letting qualified doctors and engineers from other countries (doesn't even have to be third world, a lot of british doctors would move here given their starting salary of 30k) will turn us into a third world country? also, the wage argument doesn't make sense because rural doctors earn more than urban doctors due to the low desirability of the location, and despite med schools specifically selecting for students who are willing to become rural doctors, they still cannot find enough doctors to fill those spots. (https://medrecruit.medworld.com/articles/how-much-do-rural-doctors-make https://medrecruit.medworld.com/articles/how-much-do-rural-d...) its also concerning that the reason you decided to oppose immigration was not for a tangible reason, but because wall street supports it. seems like contrarianism run amok. did you become a communist because wall street supports capitalism?
  - mwbajor 3y ago
    Immigrants from poorer countries will do anything for a buck. It becomes a race to the bottom. As long as conditions here don't get worse than where they came from they'll be happy. But for us, its just down, down down in terms of quality of living. If rural hospitals need to pay doctors even more than so be it. I want that job going to an American. Is it concerning because I don't care about what society thinks? Is it concerning that I don't care about getting an attaboy (e.g. karma) for towing society's latest groupthink?
    - AnishLaddha 3y ago
      "Immigrants from poorer countries will do anything for a buck. It becomes a race to the bottom. As long as conditions here don't get worse than where they came from they'll be happy. But for us, its just down, down down in terms of quality of living." would you be open to mass immigration from europe and east asia, in that case? some of the countries have even higher standards of living, so logically those immigrants will demand better and raise our standards of living. Also, most cities like san diego, miami, dallas, atlanta etc have all become safer, cleaner, and the QoL has increased dramatically from 30-40 years ago. These cities have all become increasingly immigrant populated relative to 30-40 years ago, many of these immigrants coming from latin america or asia. "If rural hospitals need to pay doctors even more than so be it. I want that job going to an American." the crux of the issue is that there literally aren't enough american doctors. med schools giving recruitment preferences to doctors willing to work in rural areas + a much higher salary + a much lower COL still aren't enough to attract american doctors there. I don't know what magical solution you have to make thesecommunities desirable destinations but I am all ears. "Is it concerning because I don't care about what society thinks? Is it concerning that I don't care about getting an attaboy (e.g. karma) for towing society's latest groupthink?" no? There are many valid arguments to heavily restrict immigration, largely based on middle class incomes and cultural attrition, i just don't see how any of those apply to doctors in rural areas. and i was responding to how you openly admitted that you dislike it because wall street likes it. seems like a bad way to approach policy!
civilitty 3y ago
It doesn't help doctors since they have to pass the same residence process before they can practice in the United States but lots of countries like Mexico and the Philippines have nursing degrees that are valid in the US as long as they pass the NCLEX-RN exam. Each university's program is evaluated individually but it's a standardized process. Once they're here they can follow the nurse practitioner process which allows them to do many of the same things as doctors.
HWR_14 3y ago
Doctors want to move to the US because it's usually a 10x pay bump.

mwbajor 3y ago

You don't. Immigration is not a "solves all problems" solution. Its a "drive down wages so that we live in a 3rd world country like the immigrants we are paying" solution. I used to be a big libertarian proponent for immigration and now I've become the complete opposite after seeing how much money wall street (and almost exclusively corporate special interests) puts into increasing immigration.

AnishLaddha 3y ago
can you be more specific in how letting qualified doctors and engineers from other countries (doesn't even have to be third world, a lot of british doctors would move here given their starting salary of 30k) will turn us into a third world country? also, the wage argument doesn't make sense because rural doctors earn more than urban doctors due to the low desirability of the location, and despite med schools specifically selecting for students who are willing to become rural doctors, they still cannot find enough doctors to fill those spots. (https://medrecruit.medworld.com/articles/how-much-do-rural-doctors-make https://medrecruit.medworld.com/articles/how-much-do-rural-d...) its also concerning that the reason you decided to oppose immigration was not for a tangible reason, but because wall street supports it. seems like contrarianism run amok. did you become a communist because wall street supports capitalism?
- mwbajor 3y ago
  Immigrants from poorer countries will do anything for a buck. It becomes a race to the bottom. As long as conditions here don't get worse than where they came from they'll be happy. But for us, its just down, down down in terms of quality of living. If rural hospitals need to pay doctors even more than so be it. I want that job going to an American. Is it concerning because I don't care about what society thinks? Is it concerning that I don't care about getting an attaboy (e.g. karma) for towing society's latest groupthink?
  - AnishLaddha 3y ago
    "Immigrants from poorer countries will do anything for a buck. It becomes a race to the bottom. As long as conditions here don't get worse than where they came from they'll be happy. But for us, its just down, down down in terms of quality of living." would you be open to mass immigration from europe and east asia, in that case? some of the countries have even higher standards of living, so logically those immigrants will demand better and raise our standards of living. Also, most cities like san diego, miami, dallas, atlanta etc have all become safer, cleaner, and the QoL has increased dramatically from 30-40 years ago. These cities have all become increasingly immigrant populated relative to 30-40 years ago, many of these immigrants coming from latin america or asia. "If rural hospitals need to pay doctors even more than so be it. I want that job going to an American." the crux of the issue is that there literally aren't enough american doctors. med schools giving recruitment preferences to doctors willing to work in rural areas + a much higher salary + a much lower COL still aren't enough to attract american doctors there. I don't know what magical solution you have to make thesecommunities desirable destinations but I am all ears. "Is it concerning because I don't care about what society thinks? Is it concerning that I don't care about getting an attaboy (e.g. karma) for towing society's latest groupthink?" no? There are many valid arguments to heavily restrict immigration, largely based on middle class incomes and cultural attrition, i just don't see how any of those apply to doctors in rural areas. and i was responding to how you openly admitted that you dislike it because wall street likes it. seems like a bad way to approach policy!

civilitty 3y ago

It doesn't help doctors since they have to pass the same residence process before they can practice in the United States but lots of countries like Mexico and the Philippines have nursing degrees that are valid in the US as long as they pass the NCLEX-RN exam. Each university's program is evaluated individually but it's a standardized process. Once they're here they can follow the nurse practitioner process which allows them to do many of the same things as doctors.

HWR_14 3y ago

Doctors want to move to the US because it's usually a 10x pay bump.