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> trying to out do one another across different dimensions (though mostly hops) In places with younger craft markets, it's like an even split between hops and

> trying to out do one another across different dimensions (though mostly hops) In places with younger craft markets, it's like an even split between hops and extreme naming/label graphics. Here in Seattle, beer names are like Obscure Mythology Reference and you might enjoy the Wikipedia hole it starts you on while you imbibe. The first craft brew I remember seeing visiting my original home state, Virginia, was literally named Raging Bitch with a fierce looking dog baring its teeth and blood-like splatters of red ink. It was actually a pretty decent stout IIRC.

pjm331 3y ago
Raging Bitch is made by Flying Dog brewery whose art is done by Ralph Steadman - well known for his collaborations with Hunter S Thompson. I started drinking it because of that fact after reading Fear and Loathing for the first time in college. It’s also nice and strong - 9% iirc
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  Ah, I had no idea about the artist! It came to mind because it’s pretty representative of the general theme I noticed, but also because the art was definitely striking in its own right.
- girvo 3y ago
  > It’s also nice and strong - 9% iirc As all good stouts should be, in my humble opinion! My all time favourite beer is the BrewDog, Nogne and Mikkeller collaboration stout: the Black Tokyo Horizon. It's 17.2%!
  - xarope 3y ago
    17.2%?!? That led me down the rabbit hole to find out beers with very high alcohol content. Apparently Brewmeister Snake Venom, at ABV 67.5%, is the highest.
    - genocidicbunny 3y ago
      67.5% just sounds..bad. I'd be hard pressed to find a liquor that's easily drinkable at that ABV. Something like Utopias by Sam Adams is 28%, and even at that point, you drink it more like a liquor than a beer.
    - kodt 3y ago
      Yes those super high ones are usually freeze concentrated (partially frozen, then ice is removed which removes water, what is left is stronger) multiple times to reach such high ABVs. The highest you will see actually fermented is usually around 18-20%, but there are specialty yeasts that can get up to 25%. Then you can get even higher with extended aging in spirit barrels where some ABV is picked up by absorbing residual spirit as well as evaporation increasing the strength. Sam Adams Utopias for example comes in at 28%
      - phillc73 3y ago
        Brewing high ABV beers is actually quite the challenge, especially once it gets above about 10%. The grain to strike water ratio changes so much that lautering often gets “stuck” due to the thick consistency of the grain bed.
        eyelidlessness 3y ago
        It’s pretty easy to get into the ~15% range with the right yeast (champagne yeast is the best starting point) and attention to sugar conversion (I wish I could remember the details here but I haven’t brewed for about a decade) and importantly for beer, good ventilation. I had a barleywine that should have been in this range ferment for about 12 hours and it clogged the airlock, exploded the carboy, and generally ruined everyone’s day. But not the way it was supposed to ruin anyone’s day.
        phillc73 3y ago
        It's not so much a problem of the yeast and attenuation. Nottingham should be fine up to 14% and for a high gravity beer somewhere above 75% attenuation. The issue is yield and lautering. The mash is so thick, or rather there's so much of it, that proceses need to be adjusted to account for that, and from experience yields are much lower in a typical entry level craft brewing system (400L).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lmm 3y ago
    Just a waste IMO. Yes, sometimes I want a strong beer, but sometimes I want to spend an afternoon drinking and chatting with a friend. But I still want something that tastes good in that case!
    - girvo 3y ago
      Hardly a waste; I never do the “spend all afternoon drinking” thing these days, and if I really want to, well these strong stouts are excellent to sip over a fairly long period of time because they taste great slightly warmed up
    - smcl 3y ago
      Yeah the super-strong ones are fun to try every now and then, but having >2x the alcohol of a normal beer is not something to be taken lightly. I've found myself favouring lower ABV recently - I like drinking beer but I don't really like being drunk and at my age I do not handle hangovers well, (currently fighting through one)
    - dagw 3y ago
      My favourite thing to come out of the craft brew movement recently is the renewed interest in session beers and generally great beers a 4% or lower. I love being able to drink lots of really nice and interesting beers and just not feel drunk.
      - chad_c 3y ago
        The industry in Atlanta shifted to these types of beers right around the start of the pandemic. Every brewery here now has a lager, rice lager, or low-abv pale ale. The best is Halfway Crooks [1]! [1] https://halfwaycrooks.beer/ https://halfwaycrooks.beer/
  - ubercore 3y ago
    Those are some heavy hitters, would love to try that collab if I ever find it!
    - girvo 3y ago
      If you can find it, I can’t recommend it enough. I bought a carton of it, twice, that’s how great it is (in my opinion). Don’t ask how much the carton was though haha
  - dfxm12 3y ago
    Dry Irish stouts, like Guinness, are good and despite their reputation, are not (and should not be) anywhere near that strong. They come in at ~4.2% abv, like most "light" beers.
- lamp_book 3y ago
  I love Steadman’s art but refuse to buy Flying Dog beer since their owner is a giant asswipe (don’t remember the details just something to do with mistreating employees). Steadman also did the art for Anthony Bourdain’s cookbook - highly recommend that though. edit: HST’s story on the Kentucky Derby features Steadman prominently and it’s my favorite of his after/along with Fear and Loathing and Hell’s Angels. It’s probably the most gonzo of the three as well. edit: Corrected Flying Dog from BrewDog
  - ginnungagap 3y ago
    As far as I know there is no relationship between BrewDog and Flying Dog despite the names
    - lamp_book 3y ago
      Oh whoops I meant Flying Dog.
      - _puk 3y ago
        I think you can quite correctly substitute Flying Dog for Brew Dog in the "owner is an asswipe and I won't buy anything from him" stakes: 'BrewDog, the fast-expanding craft beer firm, has apologised to former employees who accused the company and its co-founder James Watt of fostering a “culture of fear” in which workers were bullied and “treated like objects”.' [0] 0: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/10/brewdog-staff-craft-beer-firm-letter https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/10/brewdog-sta...
        smcl 3y ago
        BrewDog is a sad one for me. It was nice to see a brewery in the region I'm from (Aberdeenshire, Scotland) becoming a worldwide success. But their "punk" aesthetic is a bit cringe for a big corporate company, and the owner turning out to be a dick is a real turn-off and the beer isn't good enough for me to overlook it. There's another brewery in the area that I've been meaning to try out (likely impossible to find in Czech Republic), they've leaned into their Aberdeen identity pretty hard which is cool but idk what their beer is like https://www.fiercebeer.com https://www.fiercebeer.com
mikestew 3y ago
I was just thinking that this weekend in the Seattle area as we wandered the aisles for six for the wife. It’s either an attempt to put the scariest-looking skull(s) on the label, or $SOMETHING $SEXUAL_REFERENCE $FARM_ANIMAL (e. g., Ass-Kickin’ Horny Goat Stout).
- bee_rider 3y ago
  Sounds pretty good TBH, does the drawing of the goat have bloodshot eyes and maybe yellowed and/or missing teeth? Because I’d give that a try.
- bamfly 3y ago
  > It’s either an attempt to put the scariest-looking skull(s) on the label One of the people behind Liquid Death water was on NPR some weeks back, and basically their entire deal, as told by him, was just taking canned water and applying craft beer branding. Not to knock it, evidently it worked and, as far as the product and concept, was all they needed. Just thought it was funny—yeah, why not put an edgy name and skulls all over water?
  - starkparker 3y ago
    That was CEO Mike Cessario, who's ex-Netflix. And it was Monster he was aping more than craft beer. (It was Kai Ryssdal who compares it to Arrogant Bastard beer.) https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/25/liquid-death-is-an-entertainment-machine-with-a-water-brand-attached/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/25/liquid-death-is-an-en...
  - 13of40 3y ago
    The only reason I haven't bought one of those at Whole Foods is I don't want to deal with the cops seeing it in the cup holder in my car. Much better to buy the plastiboard container that says "Just Water" on the side[1] and fill it with vodka. (I am kidding.) [1]https://dg6qn11ynnp6a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/19120240/JustWater-Water-Social.jpg https://dg6qn11ynnp6a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018...
  - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
ojbyrne 3y ago
Pretty sure it’s an IPA. Sigh
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  You are correct
  - eyelidlessness 3y ago
    I’m my defense I remembered the artwork then I bought their stout whenever I visited until I couldn’t find it anymore
    - ojbyrne 3y ago
      I did not sigh at your mistake, I sighed at the over-prevalence of IPAs.
Tao3300 3y ago
Flying Dog's Raging Bitch has a special place in my heart. It was the beer in my fridge many years ago on the day I got laid off. Got to drink that and watch the Women's World Cup instead of being at my awful job.

pjm331 3y ago

Raging Bitch is made by Flying Dog brewery whose art is done by Ralph Steadman - well known for his collaborations with Hunter S Thompson. I started drinking it because of that fact after reading Fear and Loathing for the first time in college. It’s also nice and strong - 9% iirc

eyelidlessness 3y ago
Ah, I had no idea about the artist! It came to mind because it’s pretty representative of the general theme I noticed, but also because the art was definitely striking in its own right.
girvo 3y ago
> It’s also nice and strong - 9% iirc As all good stouts should be, in my humble opinion! My all time favourite beer is the BrewDog, Nogne and Mikkeller collaboration stout: the Black Tokyo Horizon. It's 17.2%!
- xarope 3y ago
  17.2%?!? That led me down the rabbit hole to find out beers with very high alcohol content. Apparently Brewmeister Snake Venom, at ABV 67.5%, is the highest.
  - genocidicbunny 3y ago
    67.5% just sounds..bad. I'd be hard pressed to find a liquor that's easily drinkable at that ABV. Something like Utopias by Sam Adams is 28%, and even at that point, you drink it more like a liquor than a beer.
  - kodt 3y ago
    Yes those super high ones are usually freeze concentrated (partially frozen, then ice is removed which removes water, what is left is stronger) multiple times to reach such high ABVs. The highest you will see actually fermented is usually around 18-20%, but there are specialty yeasts that can get up to 25%. Then you can get even higher with extended aging in spirit barrels where some ABV is picked up by absorbing residual spirit as well as evaporation increasing the strength. Sam Adams Utopias for example comes in at 28%
    - phillc73 3y ago
      Brewing high ABV beers is actually quite the challenge, especially once it gets above about 10%. The grain to strike water ratio changes so much that lautering often gets “stuck” due to the thick consistency of the grain bed.
      - eyelidlessness 3y ago
        It’s pretty easy to get into the ~15% range with the right yeast (champagne yeast is the best starting point) and attention to sugar conversion (I wish I could remember the details here but I haven’t brewed for about a decade) and importantly for beer, good ventilation. I had a barleywine that should have been in this range ferment for about 12 hours and it clogged the airlock, exploded the carboy, and generally ruined everyone’s day. But not the way it was supposed to ruin anyone’s day.
        phillc73 3y ago
        It's not so much a problem of the yeast and attenuation. Nottingham should be fine up to 14% and for a high gravity beer somewhere above 75% attenuation. The issue is yield and lautering. The mash is so thick, or rather there's so much of it, that proceses need to be adjusted to account for that, and from experience yields are much lower in a typical entry level craft brewing system (400L).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lmm 3y ago
  Just a waste IMO. Yes, sometimes I want a strong beer, but sometimes I want to spend an afternoon drinking and chatting with a friend. But I still want something that tastes good in that case!
  - girvo 3y ago
    Hardly a waste; I never do the “spend all afternoon drinking” thing these days, and if I really want to, well these strong stouts are excellent to sip over a fairly long period of time because they taste great slightly warmed up
  - smcl 3y ago
    Yeah the super-strong ones are fun to try every now and then, but having >2x the alcohol of a normal beer is not something to be taken lightly. I've found myself favouring lower ABV recently - I like drinking beer but I don't really like being drunk and at my age I do not handle hangovers well, (currently fighting through one)
  - dagw 3y ago
    My favourite thing to come out of the craft brew movement recently is the renewed interest in session beers and generally great beers a 4% or lower. I love being able to drink lots of really nice and interesting beers and just not feel drunk.
    - chad_c 3y ago
      The industry in Atlanta shifted to these types of beers right around the start of the pandemic. Every brewery here now has a lager, rice lager, or low-abv pale ale. The best is Halfway Crooks [1]! [1] https://halfwaycrooks.beer/ https://halfwaycrooks.beer/
- ubercore 3y ago
  Those are some heavy hitters, would love to try that collab if I ever find it!
  - girvo 3y ago
    If you can find it, I can’t recommend it enough. I bought a carton of it, twice, that’s how great it is (in my opinion). Don’t ask how much the carton was though haha
- dfxm12 3y ago
  Dry Irish stouts, like Guinness, are good and despite their reputation, are not (and should not be) anywhere near that strong. They come in at ~4.2% abv, like most "light" beers.
lamp_book 3y ago
I love Steadman’s art but refuse to buy Flying Dog beer since their owner is a giant asswipe (don’t remember the details just something to do with mistreating employees). Steadman also did the art for Anthony Bourdain’s cookbook - highly recommend that though. edit: HST’s story on the Kentucky Derby features Steadman prominently and it’s my favorite of his after/along with Fear and Loathing and Hell’s Angels. It’s probably the most gonzo of the three as well. edit: Corrected Flying Dog from BrewDog
- ginnungagap 3y ago
  As far as I know there is no relationship between BrewDog and Flying Dog despite the names
  - lamp_book 3y ago
    Oh whoops I meant Flying Dog.
    - _puk 3y ago
      I think you can quite correctly substitute Flying Dog for Brew Dog in the "owner is an asswipe and I won't buy anything from him" stakes: 'BrewDog, the fast-expanding craft beer firm, has apologised to former employees who accused the company and its co-founder James Watt of fostering a “culture of fear” in which workers were bullied and “treated like objects”.' [0] 0: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/10/brewdog-staff-craft-beer-firm-letter https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/10/brewdog-sta...
      - smcl 3y ago
        BrewDog is a sad one for me. It was nice to see a brewery in the region I'm from (Aberdeenshire, Scotland) becoming a worldwide success. But their "punk" aesthetic is a bit cringe for a big corporate company, and the owner turning out to be a dick is a real turn-off and the beer isn't good enough for me to overlook it. There's another brewery in the area that I've been meaning to try out (likely impossible to find in Czech Republic), they've leaned into their Aberdeen identity pretty hard which is cool but idk what their beer is like https://www.fiercebeer.com https://www.fiercebeer.com

mikestew 3y ago

I was just thinking that this weekend in the Seattle area as we wandered the aisles for six for the wife. It’s either an attempt to put the scariest-looking skull(s) on the label, or $SOMETHING $SEXUAL_REFERENCE $FARM_ANIMAL (e. g., Ass-Kickin’ Horny Goat Stout).

bee_rider 3y ago
Sounds pretty good TBH, does the drawing of the goat have bloodshot eyes and maybe yellowed and/or missing teeth? Because I’d give that a try.
bamfly 3y ago
> It’s either an attempt to put the scariest-looking skull(s) on the label One of the people behind Liquid Death water was on NPR some weeks back, and basically their entire deal, as told by him, was just taking canned water and applying craft beer branding. Not to knock it, evidently it worked and, as far as the product and concept, was all they needed. Just thought it was funny—yeah, why not put an edgy name and skulls all over water?
- starkparker 3y ago
  That was CEO Mike Cessario, who's ex-Netflix. And it was Monster he was aping more than craft beer. (It was Kai Ryssdal who compares it to Arrogant Bastard beer.) https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/25/liquid-death-is-an-entertainment-machine-with-a-water-brand-attached/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/25/liquid-death-is-an-en...
- 13of40 3y ago
  The only reason I haven't bought one of those at Whole Foods is I don't want to deal with the cops seeing it in the cup holder in my car. Much better to buy the plastiboard container that says "Just Water" on the side[1] and fill it with vodka. (I am kidding.) [1]https://dg6qn11ynnp6a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/19120240/JustWater-Water-Social.jpg https://dg6qn11ynnp6a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018...
- ProfessorLayton 3y ago

ojbyrne 3y ago

Pretty sure it’s an IPA. Sigh

eyelidlessness 3y ago
You are correct
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  I’m my defense I remembered the artwork then I bought their stout whenever I visited until I couldn’t find it anymore
  - ojbyrne 3y ago
    I did not sigh at your mistake, I sighed at the over-prevalence of IPAs.

Tao3300 3y ago

Flying Dog's Raging Bitch has a special place in my heart. It was the beer in my fridge many years ago on the day I got laid off. Got to drink that and watch the Women's World Cup instead of being at my awful job.