4 ms·

Hey, if my money and property is “a necessary sacrifice” then who am I to argue? Come, live in my house; take some of my food. Do you need clothing? A car? I am

Hey, if my money and property is “a necessary sacrifice” then who am I to argue? Come, live in my house; take some of my food. Do you need clothing? A car? I am at your disposal. Together, we can build a better economy (for you).

rowanG077 3y ago
Ah yes. The classic straw man in the wild.
- colonCapitalDee 3y ago
  Not a strawman. Direct quote from the parent: "Yes, a lot of people who bought expensive properties may forget about any returns, there could be some margin calls and banking system won’t be happy."
  - rowanG077 3y ago
    Saying housing needs to stop being viewed as an investment, and as such will be devalued, is not even remotely the same thing as saying, and I quote the person I replied to here: "Come, live in my house; take some of my food. Do you need clothing? A car? I am at your disposal. Together, we can build a better economy (for you)." The straw men here is that everything should be sacrificed at the alter of a better economy. Which is not what was claimed.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      What was claimed is that OP wants some of my house. Unsurprisingly, I wasn’t in favor. No one is asking whether everything should be sacrificed, I’m just asserting that none of my things should be: not my home or my food or my clothing. When you attempt to steal these things I resist . This idea that we would all be better off if you simply had some of my stuff is bad and wrong.
      - ivan_gammel 3y ago
        >What was claimed is that OP wants some of my house. That was a pretty strange assumption. Nobody wants your house. I just don’t care if you won’t be able to sell it with any profit or even for the same amount of money. However, if property prices go down everywhere, you will be able to exchange it for equivalent property elsewhere. Full disclosure: I invested in property myself and I’m fine burning that money if the outcome is healthier economy.
        singleshot_ 3y ago
        What if property prices go down some places (e.g., my house) but not everywhere? This would be a pretty big problem for me, right? What if I needed to move to one of the regular places all of a sudden for work? Or is the idea that it’s better for the economy for me to be trapped until I can pay off my mortgage as like a penalty for choosing the wrong place without knowing they would conver the market according to OP’s plan? I’m all for a healthier economy, don’t get me wrong. It’s just kind of annoying for people to treat my largest asset as some kind of externality. It’s super that you are so generous to burn your money to help everyone but I would prefer to explore solutions that don’t intentionally detonate one of the most important markets in our economy and one that I cannot reduce my exposure to because I am naturally less inclined to give things away.
        ivan_gammel 3y ago
        Investing borrowed money is always a risk and it is your responsibility to do your research and have good financial planning to be able to pay the debts. It’s not just regulations that may impact the market. Climate change, financial crises, some big business shutting down in your area and reducing the demand etc etc.
        singleshot_ 3y ago
        It is up to me to do my own research and see whether people in my state or city are getting set to tank the economy on purpose because their politics are awful. This is actually not terrible advice. Hell, the rest of this post is just wall to wall facts. I'm a bit at a loss here. I was getting all warmed up to try to have an argument with you but it appears you're probably right. Well, you can't win them all.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  The straw man where some dude is like “hey I need your money more than you” and I’m like “could we not?” Look I get it, it’s annoying to live in a dump where so many people live in public for whatever reason (lack of educational opportunities, structural racism, gender violence, poor healthcare, you name it, I agree it’s important) but if thirty percent of my income isn’t helping I sincerely doubt fifteen percent of my house is going to help much either. Sadly, I just don’t have that much to give.
  - rowanG077 3y ago
    That is precisely not what would be happening. No money changes hands. An investment is a risk. It can devalue for arbitrary reasons. This is not theft. This is not wierd. This is how it works. No one stole anything from the person/company that invested in property.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      I’m glad you were here to explain this to me like I was a child! But you have contradicted yourself. My “investment” (a strange thing to call my home but if you are more comfortable using your weird language constructs, so be it) is not being devalued for “arbitrary reasons” under your plan. Instead, it would be systematically torpedoed using the same old combination of the political system plus my money, with the additional kicker of some of the value of my home. No, sir, what you are considering is not an arbitrary reason why my investment might decline, but a concerted political effort to shift the value of my home away from me. Proposal: you should remain living in Europe and I will hope that your plan is successful where you live.
      - rowanG077 3y ago
        A government deciding to change course is most certainly an arbitrary reason in the grand scheme of things. If it's not an investment then there is no problem for you. You continue to own your house, nothings changed. No one comes to take the house from you. You can keep living there. You exchanged money for the utility of owning a house. The utility of the house won't change. So I'm not sure why you are so salty about the proposal. Besides, it wasn't my proposal. I'm not arguing for or against it. I only called out your strawman.

rowanG077 3y ago

Ah yes. The classic straw man in the wild.

colonCapitalDee 3y ago
Not a strawman. Direct quote from the parent: "Yes, a lot of people who bought expensive properties may forget about any returns, there could be some margin calls and banking system won’t be happy."
- rowanG077 3y ago
  Saying housing needs to stop being viewed as an investment, and as such will be devalued, is not even remotely the same thing as saying, and I quote the person I replied to here: "Come, live in my house; take some of my food. Do you need clothing? A car? I am at your disposal. Together, we can build a better economy (for you)." The straw men here is that everything should be sacrificed at the alter of a better economy. Which is not what was claimed.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    What was claimed is that OP wants some of my house. Unsurprisingly, I wasn’t in favor. No one is asking whether everything should be sacrificed, I’m just asserting that none of my things should be: not my home or my food or my clothing. When you attempt to steal these things I resist . This idea that we would all be better off if you simply had some of my stuff is bad and wrong.
    - ivan_gammel 3y ago
      >What was claimed is that OP wants some of my house. That was a pretty strange assumption. Nobody wants your house. I just don’t care if you won’t be able to sell it with any profit or even for the same amount of money. However, if property prices go down everywhere, you will be able to exchange it for equivalent property elsewhere. Full disclosure: I invested in property myself and I’m fine burning that money if the outcome is healthier economy.
      - singleshot_ 3y ago
        What if property prices go down some places (e.g., my house) but not everywhere? This would be a pretty big problem for me, right? What if I needed to move to one of the regular places all of a sudden for work? Or is the idea that it’s better for the economy for me to be trapped until I can pay off my mortgage as like a penalty for choosing the wrong place without knowing they would conver the market according to OP’s plan? I’m all for a healthier economy, don’t get me wrong. It’s just kind of annoying for people to treat my largest asset as some kind of externality. It’s super that you are so generous to burn your money to help everyone but I would prefer to explore solutions that don’t intentionally detonate one of the most important markets in our economy and one that I cannot reduce my exposure to because I am naturally less inclined to give things away.
        ivan_gammel 3y ago
        Investing borrowed money is always a risk and it is your responsibility to do your research and have good financial planning to be able to pay the debts. It’s not just regulations that may impact the market. Climate change, financial crises, some big business shutting down in your area and reducing the demand etc etc.
        singleshot_ 3y ago
        It is up to me to do my own research and see whether people in my state or city are getting set to tank the economy on purpose because their politics are awful. This is actually not terrible advice. Hell, the rest of this post is just wall to wall facts. I'm a bit at a loss here. I was getting all warmed up to try to have an argument with you but it appears you're probably right. Well, you can't win them all.
singleshot_ 3y ago
The straw man where some dude is like “hey I need your money more than you” and I’m like “could we not?” Look I get it, it’s annoying to live in a dump where so many people live in public for whatever reason (lack of educational opportunities, structural racism, gender violence, poor healthcare, you name it, I agree it’s important) but if thirty percent of my income isn’t helping I sincerely doubt fifteen percent of my house is going to help much either. Sadly, I just don’t have that much to give.
- rowanG077 3y ago
  That is precisely not what would be happening. No money changes hands. An investment is a risk. It can devalue for arbitrary reasons. This is not theft. This is not wierd. This is how it works. No one stole anything from the person/company that invested in property.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    I’m glad you were here to explain this to me like I was a child! But you have contradicted yourself. My “investment” (a strange thing to call my home but if you are more comfortable using your weird language constructs, so be it) is not being devalued for “arbitrary reasons” under your plan. Instead, it would be systematically torpedoed using the same old combination of the political system plus my money, with the additional kicker of some of the value of my home. No, sir, what you are considering is not an arbitrary reason why my investment might decline, but a concerted political effort to shift the value of my home away from me. Proposal: you should remain living in Europe and I will hope that your plan is successful where you live.
    - rowanG077 3y ago
      A government deciding to change course is most certainly an arbitrary reason in the grand scheme of things. If it's not an investment then there is no problem for you. You continue to own your house, nothings changed. No one comes to take the house from you. You can keep living there. You exchanged money for the utility of owning a house. The utility of the house won't change. So I'm not sure why you are so salty about the proposal. Besides, it wasn't my proposal. I'm not arguing for or against it. I only called out your strawman.