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It'll continue iff it actually works to satisfy greed. If platform builders and funders see there's a limit to enshittification before a platform breaks, then t

It'll continue iff it actually works to satisfy greed. If platform builders and funders see there's a limit to enshittification before a platform breaks, then they'll stop crossing that line out of self interest. I guess there will always be a few just trying to sell the platform to a sucker before it crashes, but you'd at least see the shit diminishing.

pessimizer 3y ago
Enshittification is caused by bad behavior being profitable. If bad behavior weren't profitable, greed would make everything nice.
- nbadg 3y ago
  I would put a slight caveat on that: it's caused by bad behavior being _perceived_ to be profitable. That doesn't mean it necessarily is. Nor that the bad actor necessarily has the tools (or desire) to evaluate the effectiveness of their behavior in realizing their greed.
  - spacemadness 3y ago
    Or perhaps profitable in the short run, which for an IPO is all that matters when people with more money than sense buy into it.
- jll29 3y ago
  Would you say profitability is an issue per se? It seems to me that users should _want_ their community platform to be profitable in order to sustain, but not "too profitable" (=greed) or the sense of community vanishes. If that is true, is it the responsibility of the online citizen to interact/transact on a platform with the "right" degree of profitability (not too small, or it'll close tomorrow, but also not to greedy, or enshittification occurs)? PS: How profitable exactly is "right" - reminds me of the family game where the winner is the "most average" person - scoring points closest to the arithmetic mean instead of the person with the max. score.
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    The problem is less "profitability" and more "increasing profitability". The problem is a publicly traded company, or a VC-backed firm trying to target an IPO, doesn't care about how much money a company makes today. They care about their investment continually increasing in value, which demands the company be growing in profits. Enshittification is a direct consequence of this mindset being applied to companies who reach something resembling market saturation. Once your user growth starts slowing down, you need to show that you'll continuously make more money per user than you did before. And that path can only lead to shit.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  Yes, and? What I'm saying is that there's probably a limit to how profitable enshittification can be. Certainly it can't be the basis of a long-term sustainable business, so it's limited to the kind of zero-sum profits of a pump and dump. Even investors get tired of this eventually, when enough of them get stuck holding the bag.
- danjac 3y ago
  A small family-run coffee shop can be profitable. It might pay for your kids' college and a comfortable retirement one day. But everyone (or everyone's investor) wants to be the equivalent of the next Starbucks.

pessimizer 3y ago

Enshittification is caused by bad behavior being profitable. If bad behavior weren't profitable, greed would make everything nice.

nbadg 3y ago
I would put a slight caveat on that: it's caused by bad behavior being _perceived_ to be profitable. That doesn't mean it necessarily is. Nor that the bad actor necessarily has the tools (or desire) to evaluate the effectiveness of their behavior in realizing their greed.
- spacemadness 3y ago
  Or perhaps profitable in the short run, which for an IPO is all that matters when people with more money than sense buy into it.
jll29 3y ago
Would you say profitability is an issue per se? It seems to me that users should _want_ their community platform to be profitable in order to sustain, but not "too profitable" (=greed) or the sense of community vanishes. If that is true, is it the responsibility of the online citizen to interact/transact on a platform with the "right" degree of profitability (not too small, or it'll close tomorrow, but also not to greedy, or enshittification occurs)? PS: How profitable exactly is "right" - reminds me of the family game where the winner is the "most average" person - scoring points closest to the arithmetic mean instead of the person with the max. score.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  The problem is less "profitability" and more "increasing profitability". The problem is a publicly traded company, or a VC-backed firm trying to target an IPO, doesn't care about how much money a company makes today. They care about their investment continually increasing in value, which demands the company be growing in profits. Enshittification is a direct consequence of this mindset being applied to companies who reach something resembling market saturation. Once your user growth starts slowing down, you need to show that you'll continuously make more money per user than you did before. And that path can only lead to shit.
andrewflnr 3y ago
Yes, and? What I'm saying is that there's probably a limit to how profitable enshittification can be. Certainly it can't be the basis of a long-term sustainable business, so it's limited to the kind of zero-sum profits of a pump and dump. Even investors get tired of this eventually, when enough of them get stuck holding the bag.
danjac 3y ago
A small family-run coffee shop can be profitable. It might pay for your kids' college and a comfortable retirement one day. But everyone (or everyone's investor) wants to be the equivalent of the next Starbucks.