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Not just iOS safari. I believe Firefox on Android is also the same. Can't believe showing user either controls or address bar at the bottom is consider "user-h

Not just iOS safari. I believe Firefox on Android is also the same. Can't believe showing user either controls or address bar at the bottom is consider "user-hostile".

zerocrates 3y ago
It's just... vexing to have "viewport" units in the spec, but then the user agents are just drawing stuff on top of the "viewport" but not changing its reported size, so now we need additional "real viewport size" units...
- danielvaughn 3y ago
  Yes exactly, we’re adding features specifically to the language to accommodate vendors who aren’t respecting the spec. Feels very backwards.
danielvaughn 3y ago
Having controls at the bottom isn't user hostile, it's the fact that it obstructs the space allotted for developers. This makes it much harder to develop mobile sites - in my experience a very large minority of sites fuck it up, and it makes the mobile browser feel like a worse experience.
- bamfly 3y ago
  Does the viewport reflect reality on desktop when e.g. http login controls cover part of the page, or another window is covering part of it?
  - danielvaughn 3y ago
    Yep, and it always has. It's super reliable on desktop.
    - bamfly 3y ago
      Like, you drag a window over your browser, and the viewport values change? I'd not have expected that, and I don't think I've ever noticed that behavior. How does it account for all of those sorts of things (browser-provided login prompts, or browser settings windows, or certificate-info pop-downs, or non-browser windows being dragged on top of part of the browser window) not necessarily resulting in a viewable area describable as a rectangle?
      - danielvaughn 3y ago
        Sorry I should have been more specific. The viewport is merely the window of the browser itself where the website is rendered. The calculations given to devs reflects that area, and it does change if the user resizes their browser. But it doesn’t change if something is displayed on top. It’s true that some temporary browser elements will display on top of the viewport, but these are things like alerts where it makes sense. To have a permanent fixture that takes up space and then have the viewport lie to devs about the actual dimensions is really frustrating.

Not just iOS safari. I believe Firefox on Android is also the same. Can't believe showing user either controls or address bar at the bottom is consider "user-hostile".

zerocrates 3y ago

It's just... vexing to have "viewport" units in the spec, but then the user agents are just drawing stuff on top of the "viewport" but not changing its reported size, so now we need additional "real viewport size" units...

danielvaughn 3y ago
Yes exactly, we’re adding features specifically to the language to accommodate vendors who aren’t respecting the spec. Feels very backwards.

danielvaughn 3y ago

Having controls at the bottom isn't user hostile, it's the fact that it obstructs the space allotted for developers. This makes it much harder to develop mobile sites - in my experience a very large minority of sites fuck it up, and it makes the mobile browser feel like a worse experience.

bamfly 3y ago
Does the viewport reflect reality on desktop when e.g. http login controls cover part of the page, or another window is covering part of it?
- danielvaughn 3y ago
  Yep, and it always has. It's super reliable on desktop.
  - bamfly 3y ago
    Like, you drag a window over your browser, and the viewport values change? I'd not have expected that, and I don't think I've ever noticed that behavior. How does it account for all of those sorts of things (browser-provided login prompts, or browser settings windows, or certificate-info pop-downs, or non-browser windows being dragged on top of part of the browser window) not necessarily resulting in a viewable area describable as a rectangle?
    - danielvaughn 3y ago
      Sorry I should have been more specific. The viewport is merely the window of the browser itself where the website is rendered. The calculations given to devs reflects that area, and it does change if the user resizes their browser. But it doesn’t change if something is displayed on top. It’s true that some temporary browser elements will display on top of the viewport, but these are things like alerts where it makes sense. To have a permanent fixture that takes up space and then have the viewport lie to devs about the actual dimensions is really frustrating.