3 ms·

See that’s on-brand with the cutthroat ruthless billG company. So not ideal, but not surprising either. This is anti-customer and needlessly fraught with lega

by r00fus 3y ago

See that’s on-brand with the cutthroat ruthless billG company. So not ideal, but not surprising either. This is anti-customer and needlessly fraught with legal implications. Of course it seems aligned with their hallucinations-enabled OpenAI investment. How much of this is just attempts to feed GPT4?

zokier 3y ago
> See that’s on-brand with the cutthroat ruthless billG company Tangential, but this made me reflect on how "good"/"nice" Ballmer, and Ballmer-era MS, was in a very relative sense. This is slightly startling considering how my mental image of either Ballmer or MS is not great. But now looking back it does feel like relentless anti-competitiveness lessened a bit during that era, and lot of good stuff happened then. Windows 7 probably will go down in history as the pinnacle of traditional desktop Windows, MS giving up on IE gave room for Firefox and (unfortunately also) Chrome, lot of previously proprietary stuff got documented and published (SMB and Office formats comes to mind), and there were some nice product developments. In contrast Gates era Microsoft was very much characterized by strong-arm tactics and throwing their weight around. And now Nadella era feels very aggressive again, pushing the company forwards no matter what; in some ways maybe less vindictive and direct than Gates, but still definitely not nice.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Ballmer was as bad as Gates (and seemed completely unhinged at times to boot), Nadella only looks good next to Ballmer but has done plenty of stuff that should have never ever happened. All of them were present at MS when they pulled their 'millions of lines of code' bullshit in an attempt to kill Linux and harm FOSS.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    As a long-time Linux user, the Nadella era looks far better. Back in the earlier eras, MS was my clear and present enemy: they did a lot of stuff to me, personally, to make my life hard because I didn't want to use their software, and tried to force me to be their customer with various tactics. These days, that's all gone. I don't feel any pressure to use Windows, and I don't see MS doing various legal shenanigans to try to destroy Linux. I'm able to do what I want and not worry about MS much at all. It's very different from the earlier eras that way. Instead, the difference these days seems to be that MS is the enemy of its own customers (or should I say "users"?). If you use Windows, MS will make your life hard with all this built-in malware and advertising. But if you're like me and you simply don't use Windows, you never see this stuff, except when people complain about it on forums like this, or if you have the misfortune of having to deal with a relative's PC. Personally, I like this new era much better. I'm able to easily opt out of MS's shenanigans by simply installing Linux. When other people gripe and complain about that stuff, it falls on deaf ears here. ("but but but... I need to play $game on my PC!!!") I feel the same way as when sports fans complain about how much they're getting raped by the media companies so they can follow their favorite team.
    - Animats 3y ago
      That's a good point. Almost everything you need to do works on Linux now.
    - Aleklart 3y ago
      It is probably extend era
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Lot of people like to troll Ballmer for his "Developers! Developers! Developers!" act, but then again you can't really get any better than being developer centric and by consequence enthusiast, power users, and professional centric. By contrast, Gates was "Embrace! Extend! Extinguish!" and Nadella is "Data! Data! Data!" I miss Ballmer.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I don't. All three of them were/are terrible. They just each have their own personality about it.
  - 5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
    And yet under Nadella Windows is way more developer-centric than it ever was under previous leadership.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      But under Nadella, Microsoft is far more contemptuous of users than it ever was before.
- pinewurst 3y ago
  I see the Nadella era rather as the triumph of PM culture, adapted/stolen from the seemingly more competitive Google and Facebook. It's all about demonstrating increased "engagement" and the ubiquitous A/B testing because new product deltas get you promoted. It's never about maintaining 'old' stuff or providing real value - only gimmicks to catch the eye of your half-wit leadership.
  - midvar 3y ago
    If you're referring to Program Management and not Project Management... Microsoft actually created the "PM" role and popularized it. "The PM role is unique to Microsoft and was actually created in response to developing software that is more usable and at the same time pushes the state of the art of technology. So when we talk about PM at Microsoft, we're talking from a perspective of creating and evolving the role over the lifetime of the PC industry." "Program managers got started at Microsoft while developing Excel for the Macintosh. [...] a new role was created in Program Management with the explicit goal of partnering with development and working through the entire product cycle as the advocate for end-users and customers." https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~xwangsd/courses/w23/readings/PM%20at%20Microsoft%20%E2%80%93%20Steven%20Sinofsky's%20Microsoft%20TechTalk.html https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~xwangsd/courses/w23/readings/PM%...

by r00fus 3y ago

zokier 3y ago

> See that’s on-brand with the cutthroat ruthless billG company Tangential, but this made me reflect on how "good"/"nice" Ballmer, and Ballmer-era MS, was in a very relative sense. This is slightly startling considering how my mental image of either Ballmer or MS is not great. But now looking back it does feel like relentless anti-competitiveness lessened a bit during that era, and lot of good stuff happened then. Windows 7 probably will go down in history as the pinnacle of traditional desktop Windows, MS giving up on IE gave room for Firefox and (unfortunately also) Chrome, lot of previously proprietary stuff got documented and published (SMB and Office formats comes to mind), and there were some nice product developments. In contrast Gates era Microsoft was very much characterized by strong-arm tactics and throwing their weight around. And now Nadella era feels very aggressive again, pushing the company forwards no matter what; in some ways maybe less vindictive and direct than Gates, but still definitely not nice.

jacquesm 3y ago
Ballmer was as bad as Gates (and seemed completely unhinged at times to boot), Nadella only looks good next to Ballmer but has done plenty of stuff that should have never ever happened. All of them were present at MS when they pulled their 'millions of lines of code' bullshit in an attempt to kill Linux and harm FOSS.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  As a long-time Linux user, the Nadella era looks far better. Back in the earlier eras, MS was my clear and present enemy: they did a lot of stuff to me, personally, to make my life hard because I didn't want to use their software, and tried to force me to be their customer with various tactics. These days, that's all gone. I don't feel any pressure to use Windows, and I don't see MS doing various legal shenanigans to try to destroy Linux. I'm able to do what I want and not worry about MS much at all. It's very different from the earlier eras that way. Instead, the difference these days seems to be that MS is the enemy of its own customers (or should I say "users"?). If you use Windows, MS will make your life hard with all this built-in malware and advertising. But if you're like me and you simply don't use Windows, you never see this stuff, except when people complain about it on forums like this, or if you have the misfortune of having to deal with a relative's PC. Personally, I like this new era much better. I'm able to easily opt out of MS's shenanigans by simply installing Linux. When other people gripe and complain about that stuff, it falls on deaf ears here. ("but but but... I need to play $game on my PC!!!") I feel the same way as when sports fans complain about how much they're getting raped by the media companies so they can follow their favorite team.
  - Animats 3y ago
    That's a good point. Almost everything you need to do works on Linux now.
  - Aleklart 3y ago
    It is probably extend era
Dalewyn 3y ago
Lot of people like to troll Ballmer for his "Developers! Developers! Developers!" act, but then again you can't really get any better than being developer centric and by consequence enthusiast, power users, and professional centric. By contrast, Gates was "Embrace! Extend! Extinguish!" and Nadella is "Data! Data! Data!" I miss Ballmer.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I don't. All three of them were/are terrible. They just each have their own personality about it.
- 5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
  And yet under Nadella Windows is way more developer-centric than it ever was under previous leadership.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    But under Nadella, Microsoft is far more contemptuous of users than it ever was before.
pinewurst 3y ago
I see the Nadella era rather as the triumph of PM culture, adapted/stolen from the seemingly more competitive Google and Facebook. It's all about demonstrating increased "engagement" and the ubiquitous A/B testing because new product deltas get you promoted. It's never about maintaining 'old' stuff or providing real value - only gimmicks to catch the eye of your half-wit leadership.
- midvar 3y ago
  If you're referring to Program Management and not Project Management... Microsoft actually created the "PM" role and popularized it. "The PM role is unique to Microsoft and was actually created in response to developing software that is more usable and at the same time pushes the state of the art of technology. So when we talk about PM at Microsoft, we're talking from a perspective of creating and evolving the role over the lifetime of the PC industry." "Program managers got started at Microsoft while developing Excel for the Macintosh. [...] a new role was created in Program Management with the explicit goal of partnering with development and working through the entire product cycle as the advocate for end-users and customers." https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~xwangsd/courses/w23/readings/PM%20at%20Microsoft%20%E2%80%93%20Steven%20Sinofsky's%20Microsoft%20TechTalk.html https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~xwangsd/courses/w23/readings/PM%...