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My take on it is that "well presented doomers"[0], if you will, serve to balance the "well presented optimists"[1] in that they are needed in society so we can

My take on it is that "well presented doomers"[0], if you will, serve to balance the "well presented optimists"[1] in that they are needed in society so we can have some take on how things could actually go wrong and sound warnings for potentially catastrophic failures. Its important though, that I think it needs moderating, like not everything "Doomers" say needs to be taken at face value, its important that others can come up and really either shore up their case or make a case for different more likely outcomes, for instance. I feel the same way about overly optimistic takes as well. They serve an important function in society to keep us aware of just how fragile things can be and that we need to be vigilant about understanding the second order affects of our actions as a society. [0]: Ones that generally rely on nonpartisan facts / science / evidence for making their claims, without resorting to debunked information to further their claims and/or not relying on conspiracy theories, for instance. [1]: I'd put alot of technologists in this group, for an example. People who constantly hype real breakthroughs and advancements as proof that we will always be trending upward as a species

abracadaniel 3y ago
One downside though is that people generally love an excuse to avoid change or avoid additional effort. “It’s not real, so we don’t have to do anything” is functionally equivalent to “it’s already too late, so why bother doing anything”
- no_wizard 3y ago
  This is true even with positive things. I wish I had a good answer for human nature and resistance to change, as that would be game changing generally speaking
- DoingIsLearning 3y ago
  I disagree, learned helpless is an easy attack on realists who tell it as it is. We consistently fall in the worst case scenario of most climate models so much so that "faster than expected" is now a meme. It is indeed too late to avoid famine and water wars but it is not too late to keep large parts of the world still livable. I would very much like my children and my children's children to have a fighting chance.
deanCommie 3y ago
"Everything will go wrong whether we do anything or not!!" No, it won't. Because we will act. "Everything will turn out fine, we don't need to worry about anything!!" No, it won't. We need to act. Honestly, both extreme reactions paralyze humans and nations into inactivity. We fixed the hole in the Ozone. We fixed Acid Rain. We stopped the whales from going extinct. We did this through concerted human and governmental actions together with pressure and regulations on corporations. We can do it again. Not without some consequences. Significant human populations will become climate refugees. Significant species will go extinct. But we can offset the worst effects, but not if doomerism or "climate change is inevitable, humans have survived worse" optimism cause us to stop trying.
- weaksauce 3y ago
  > We fixed the hole in the Ozone y2k too... that could have been awful
- flangola7 3y ago
  You speak with certainty that is not possible. Those were all tiny hobby projects in comparison. You don't have to overhaul all of modern civilization to save whales or the ozone layer. And... will act? The time to act already has come and passed, probably during the Bush years. We did not act. This is no longer about making it to the runway, this is about deciding which patch of rocks will kill the fewest passengers.
  - deanCommie 3y ago
    In the Bush years climate scientists told people that change is coming, and nobody paid attention. In the Biden years climate scientists are telling people that change is here, and it IS here. And more people are at least talking about the change, and asking what are we going to do about it. And the worst thing to tell someone who is motivated and curious (and an entire Generation Z is) is to say "It's too late. You had your chance and you blew it. There's nothing to do now" Your first sentence betrays a horrific misunderstanding: "I don't care if it's possible or not". It should not change my certainty in my ability to try. Even if it's not possible, it's still worth trying. What else are we supposed to do?

abracadaniel 3y ago

One downside though is that people generally love an excuse to avoid change or avoid additional effort. “It’s not real, so we don’t have to do anything” is functionally equivalent to “it’s already too late, so why bother doing anything”

no_wizard 3y ago
This is true even with positive things. I wish I had a good answer for human nature and resistance to change, as that would be game changing generally speaking
DoingIsLearning 3y ago
I disagree, learned helpless is an easy attack on realists who tell it as it is. We consistently fall in the worst case scenario of most climate models so much so that "faster than expected" is now a meme. It is indeed too late to avoid famine and water wars but it is not too late to keep large parts of the world still livable. I would very much like my children and my children's children to have a fighting chance.

deanCommie 3y ago

"Everything will go wrong whether we do anything or not!!" No, it won't. Because we will act. "Everything will turn out fine, we don't need to worry about anything!!" No, it won't. We need to act. Honestly, both extreme reactions paralyze humans and nations into inactivity. We fixed the hole in the Ozone. We fixed Acid Rain. We stopped the whales from going extinct. We did this through concerted human and governmental actions together with pressure and regulations on corporations. We can do it again. Not without some consequences. Significant human populations will become climate refugees. Significant species will go extinct. But we can offset the worst effects, but not if doomerism or "climate change is inevitable, humans have survived worse" optimism cause us to stop trying.

weaksauce 3y ago
> We fixed the hole in the Ozone y2k too... that could have been awful
flangola7 3y ago
You speak with certainty that is not possible. Those were all tiny hobby projects in comparison. You don't have to overhaul all of modern civilization to save whales or the ozone layer. And... will act? The time to act already has come and passed, probably during the Bush years. We did not act. This is no longer about making it to the runway, this is about deciding which patch of rocks will kill the fewest passengers.
- deanCommie 3y ago
  In the Bush years climate scientists told people that change is coming, and nobody paid attention. In the Biden years climate scientists are telling people that change is here, and it IS here. And more people are at least talking about the change, and asking what are we going to do about it. And the worst thing to tell someone who is motivated and curious (and an entire Generation Z is) is to say "It's too late. You had your chance and you blew it. There's nothing to do now" Your first sentence betrays a horrific misunderstanding: "I don't care if it's possible or not". It should not change my certainty in my ability to try. Even if it's not possible, it's still worth trying. What else are we supposed to do?