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> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. The funny thing abo

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. The funny thing about this statement is that Vision Pro is in fact the smallest rectangular screen of any device he's written code for. He's hyped up. That's normal. In time he'll understand Vision Pro doesn't provide any better UX for common activities. In fact it's worse in many ways. Where Vision Pro may shine is tasks where you need to perceive and manipulate complex three-dimensional objects, as they would be in physical space. I see great uses in engineering, design, art. It'd be great to preview interior design, design cars, architecture, create machinery and so on. It'll also be great for previewing products, so online stores become a lot more viable than they are now, as you get a sense of size and style for an item in Vision Pro. It may also be great for education, training, simulations. It has many great uses. But basic apps isn't it. And most people won't care. This thing sucks to wear for more than 20 minutes. It's heavy and uncomfortable. You can't share your experience with others, either. It costs a lot. And you can't multitask with it. I can walk to a place and do something on my phone. The input model also sucks. To code, for example, you need to hook a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Looking at symbols one by one to fingertap would be comically slow. At which point, you may as well just get 2-3 screens and work on a normal workstation. For less money.

the_overseer 3y ago
These are just gen1 issues. I expect it will become lighter and lighter until it will probably be like some heavier/bulkier glasses. For the common user it will be amazing for cooking (tells you what to take next and from where and mix in what order, all that fully with arrows on the screen). Or let's say you want to leave your home and it knows that you forgot your keys and it tells you where they are with directions on the screen like the objective marker in a game. It will know where things are in your home even if you don't pay attention to them it will have object recognition in place and you will be able to say "Hey Siri where did I leave my glasses?" and it will point you to them.
- BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
  Do you recall the wave of people breaking their TVs with the Nintendo Wii controllers? I'd expect a similar wave of people breaking their expensive Vision Pros if they try cooking with one. It's a terrible idea. First, most kitchens are cramped, full of low-hanging cabinets to break your Vision's fragile glass into. And then, keeping those open vents around vapors full of fat and tasty food bits is a great way to cover the circuits with grease. We already have a solution for something telling you what to do next, and it's called an iPad with a stand. A phone also does the job and has much lower chance of incidents than a headset, despite yes, you may need to wash your hands from time to time to scroll down. Or... you can simply use assistive features and voice for that. Siri is going to get a lot smarter thanks to LLM, much sooner than Vision Pro will become light and pragmatic for such purposes. Regarding this "it'll know where things are in your home", let's use basic logic here. It can learn the layout of your rooms and where your immovable furniture is. But no, it can't know where everything that moves is, because this means you literally can't move anything unless you have the headset on to track its location. Or slap expensive AirTags on every single jar and utensil maybe. All solutions would be hilariously impractical. And... we'll end up with where I started: a broken Vision Pro glass as you slam it in a cupboard while trying to fish out a jar of condiments. I don't know what is about VR that makes people pull out the fantasy scenarios. It's simply a (bulky) screen with pass through. It's not a wizard. It can't know things unless there's a way for it to find them. We can imagine a super-thin model that you can keep on your face 24/7 and sleep with it too, so it tracks your entire life forever and knows you better than you know yourself. And it synchronizes with your spouse and children who also wear their own headsets 24/7. And it's unbreakable. And the battery never runs out. We can imagine many things. They don't exist, and won't exist any time soon. "Not on the horizon" as Steve Jobs used to say.
- yellow_postit 3y ago
  “Bulkier glasses” is a deal breaker for me — LASIK was one of the best quality of life upgrades and I can’t imagine rushing back to that experience for many reasons. Ambient computing of the style you describe I do think is a common use case and I look forward to less invasive form factors to tackle it.
thenayr 3y ago
[dead]
fooker 3y ago
>To code, for example, you need to hook a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. I have a hunch that coding as we know it is going to look very different in ~5-10 years.
- BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
  Maybe, but not in terms of needing code. You see, the rules of formal languages that encode formal rules of system constraints pre-date computers by centuries. Think of math proofs, for example. Sure, we can encode symbols as emojis, or geometric figures or whatever. But in the end, it's sequences of symbols, that's the nature of it. And tapping symbols one by one with a headset will suck, no matter how programming looks. The rules of formal languages that encode formal rules of system constraints pre-date in fact our species too. Think about what DNA is. Oh yeah, spooky, isn't it. A sequence of symbols (GTCA) encoding a sequence of more complex symbols (proteins). Spooky! But yes, DNA is our code. And it works the same as our programming code. Now I know where you're going. LLMs. Let's assume an LLM writes the code for you. You still have to read it, which you can do fine with a headset (if it's not as encapsulating and heavy, and with short battery life as Vision Pro v1). But if you spot something's off, you need to adjust it. Go directly for the kill, and make that surgical series of edits. You know? Or... maybe you can spend the rest of the day hopelessly trying to explain to Siri 2030 year edition what you want to do, instead of going in and doing it, for that "last mile". Because if AI can do the last mile itself, to the point you don't need to even verify it... first, that's the fast way to AI shipping code we don't understand and basically giving up our entire civilization to it. And second... we don't need to code, but we also won't need to exist, and therefore not need headsets. So in the worldlines where we DO exist... Vision Pro sucks for coding, because it's a shitty human interface to editing code. And in the worldlines where we DO NOT exist... Vision Pro sucks for coding, because AI doesn't need headsets.
  - greedo 3y ago
    You do realize you can use a keyboard with this? And that the VP can plug in for infinite power?
    - 3y ago
euroderf 3y ago
It will absolutely rule for wargames (i.e. board-based simulations). High resolution, zooming into "counter" stacks, limited intelligence (yes!), calling up rules, procedure checklists, odds calculation & combat resolution, the list goes on and on methinks. Grognards with sufficient disposable income - rejoice! At last you can (for example) play Operation Barbarossa at regiment level - and retain your sanity!
greedo 3y ago
Have you worn this? Yo use pretty explicit with your complaints about its weight and comfort. Your penultimate paragraph is really unfounded and inaccurate. You can multitask with in (in a computing sense). You can share with apps that have use the appropriate APIs. And I completely disagree that "basic apps" (whatever that is) will not be a great use case. Hell, I would buy this today so I could have a monitor replacement. And I'm just a lowly sysadmin who is at home with vim in a terminal.

the_overseer 3y ago

These are just gen1 issues. I expect it will become lighter and lighter until it will probably be like some heavier/bulkier glasses. For the common user it will be amazing for cooking (tells you what to take next and from where and mix in what order, all that fully with arrows on the screen). Or let's say you want to leave your home and it knows that you forgot your keys and it tells you where they are with directions on the screen like the objective marker in a game. It will know where things are in your home even if you don't pay attention to them it will have object recognition in place and you will be able to say "Hey Siri where did I leave my glasses?" and it will point you to them.

BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
Do you recall the wave of people breaking their TVs with the Nintendo Wii controllers? I'd expect a similar wave of people breaking their expensive Vision Pros if they try cooking with one. It's a terrible idea. First, most kitchens are cramped, full of low-hanging cabinets to break your Vision's fragile glass into. And then, keeping those open vents around vapors full of fat and tasty food bits is a great way to cover the circuits with grease. We already have a solution for something telling you what to do next, and it's called an iPad with a stand. A phone also does the job and has much lower chance of incidents than a headset, despite yes, you may need to wash your hands from time to time to scroll down. Or... you can simply use assistive features and voice for that. Siri is going to get a lot smarter thanks to LLM, much sooner than Vision Pro will become light and pragmatic for such purposes. Regarding this "it'll know where things are in your home", let's use basic logic here. It can learn the layout of your rooms and where your immovable furniture is. But no, it can't know where everything that moves is, because this means you literally can't move anything unless you have the headset on to track its location. Or slap expensive AirTags on every single jar and utensil maybe. All solutions would be hilariously impractical. And... we'll end up with where I started: a broken Vision Pro glass as you slam it in a cupboard while trying to fish out a jar of condiments. I don't know what is about VR that makes people pull out the fantasy scenarios. It's simply a (bulky) screen with pass through. It's not a wizard. It can't know things unless there's a way for it to find them. We can imagine a super-thin model that you can keep on your face 24/7 and sleep with it too, so it tracks your entire life forever and knows you better than you know yourself. And it synchronizes with your spouse and children who also wear their own headsets 24/7. And it's unbreakable. And the battery never runs out. We can imagine many things. They don't exist, and won't exist any time soon. "Not on the horizon" as Steve Jobs used to say.
yellow_postit 3y ago
“Bulkier glasses” is a deal breaker for me — LASIK was one of the best quality of life upgrades and I can’t imagine rushing back to that experience for many reasons. Ambient computing of the style you describe I do think is a common use case and I look forward to less invasive form factors to tackle it.

thenayr 3y ago

[dead]

fooker 3y ago

>To code, for example, you need to hook a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. I have a hunch that coding as we know it is going to look very different in ~5-10 years.

BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
Maybe, but not in terms of needing code. You see, the rules of formal languages that encode formal rules of system constraints pre-date computers by centuries. Think of math proofs, for example. Sure, we can encode symbols as emojis, or geometric figures or whatever. But in the end, it's sequences of symbols, that's the nature of it. And tapping symbols one by one with a headset will suck, no matter how programming looks. The rules of formal languages that encode formal rules of system constraints pre-date in fact our species too. Think about what DNA is. Oh yeah, spooky, isn't it. A sequence of symbols (GTCA) encoding a sequence of more complex symbols (proteins). Spooky! But yes, DNA is our code. And it works the same as our programming code. Now I know where you're going. LLMs. Let's assume an LLM writes the code for you. You still have to read it, which you can do fine with a headset (if it's not as encapsulating and heavy, and with short battery life as Vision Pro v1). But if you spot something's off, you need to adjust it. Go directly for the kill, and make that surgical series of edits. You know? Or... maybe you can spend the rest of the day hopelessly trying to explain to Siri 2030 year edition what you want to do, instead of going in and doing it, for that "last mile". Because if AI can do the last mile itself, to the point you don't need to even verify it... first, that's the fast way to AI shipping code we don't understand and basically giving up our entire civilization to it. And second... we don't need to code, but we also won't need to exist, and therefore not need headsets. So in the worldlines where we DO exist... Vision Pro sucks for coding, because it's a shitty human interface to editing code. And in the worldlines where we DO NOT exist... Vision Pro sucks for coding, because AI doesn't need headsets.
- greedo 3y ago
  You do realize you can use a keyboard with this? And that the VP can plug in for infinite power?
  - 3y ago

euroderf 3y ago

It will absolutely rule for wargames (i.e. board-based simulations). High resolution, zooming into "counter" stacks, limited intelligence (yes!), calling up rules, procedure checklists, odds calculation & combat resolution, the list goes on and on methinks. Grognards with sufficient disposable income - rejoice! At last you can (for example) play Operation Barbarossa at regiment level - and retain your sanity!

greedo 3y ago

Have you worn this? Yo use pretty explicit with your complaints about its weight and comfort. Your penultimate paragraph is really unfounded and inaccurate. You can multitask with in (in a computing sense). You can share with apps that have use the appropriate APIs. And I completely disagree that "basic apps" (whatever that is) will not be a great use case. Hell, I would buy this today so I could have a monitor replacement. And I'm just a lowly sysadmin who is at home with vim in a terminal.