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How will this affect home chargers? Will future Fords require an adapter to work with a home CCS charger? Will this affect compatibility with V2H?

by sp332 3y ago

josephcsible 3y ago
Home CCS chargers don't exist.
- vardump 3y ago
  IIRC, in Europe you can buy 40 kW CCS charger for about $20k and install it at home. You only need 3x63A (~43 kW at 230V) line to run it. A quick web search finds a lot of CCS charger resellers.
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    Europe uses CCS2, which is a different thing than the CCS in North America. And even if something comparable were available, given the cost and other requirements, I highly doubt there'd be more than a few dozen total installations.
    - vardump 3y ago
      It's called CCS in Europe all the same. No idea how many installations, but the point is you can have one at home.
      - josephcsible 3y ago
        > No idea how many installations, but the point is you can have one at home. Okay, maybe my statement was slightly too strong, but that feels like nitpicking the statement "all Teslas are EVs" because of the one ICE conversion from Rich Rebuilds.
        vardump 3y ago
        That's a pretty bold statement. There are millions of people for whom 20k€ is chump change. I'd be surprised if those installations are not counted at least in thousands.
        vardump 3y ago
        "the statement "all Teslas are EVs" because of the one ICE conversion from Rich Rebuilds." You can actually buy these CSS DC chargers online and have them installed. Comparing to something one-off rather unreasonable.
      - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
        The EU CCS2 uses 3-phase AC. Good for fast power transfer, but 3-phase AC isn't available in residential zones in the US (unlike in the EU). Unless you're willing to pay tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the power company to run new power lines into your neighborhood, install a new 3-phase pole transformer for your house, rewire your house to have a 3-phase breaker panel, etc.
theluketaylor 3y ago
CCS is the big DC pins at the bottom. Ford and GM home charging happens via J-1772, the smaller AC pins. Tesla re-uses pins for both AC and DC which is a big part of why their handles are so much smaller than CCS Combo 1. There are plenty of adaptors for Tesla <--> J-1772 already on the market. A popular one is called TeslaTap for J-1772 to connect to Tesla wallboxes and destination chargers. A big downside of both J-1772 and NACS is they don't support 3-phase power. Type-2 in europe is very similar to J-1772 and will happily use 3-phase thanks to some extra pins. Not a big deal for home users, but operators of EV fleets could find 3-phase charging overnight very useful.
mkozlows 3y ago
The answer here is: Yes. People are being weird pedants about J1772 vs. CCS to try to confuse this answer, but if you have a home J1772 adapter that plugs into your CCS car, and you get an NACS car in the future, you'll need to use an adapter. There is no current V2H/V2L functionality on any NACS car, and nobody is sure how/if it would work. How Ford will handle that functionality on a hypothetical CCS-based F150 Lightning remains to be seen.

How will this affect home chargers? Will future Fords require an adapter to work with a home CCS charger? Will this affect compatibility with V2H?

by sp332 3y ago

How will this affect home chargers? Will future Fords require an adapter to work with a home CCS charger? Will this affect compatibility with V2H?

josephcsible 3y ago

Home CCS chargers don't exist.

vardump 3y ago
IIRC, in Europe you can buy 40 kW CCS charger for about $20k and install it at home. You only need 3x63A (~43 kW at 230V) line to run it. A quick web search finds a lot of CCS charger resellers.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  Europe uses CCS2, which is a different thing than the CCS in North America. And even if something comparable were available, given the cost and other requirements, I highly doubt there'd be more than a few dozen total installations.
  - vardump 3y ago
    It's called CCS in Europe all the same. No idea how many installations, but the point is you can have one at home.
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      > No idea how many installations, but the point is you can have one at home. Okay, maybe my statement was slightly too strong, but that feels like nitpicking the statement "all Teslas are EVs" because of the one ICE conversion from Rich Rebuilds.
      - vardump 3y ago
        That's a pretty bold statement. There are millions of people for whom 20k€ is chump change. I'd be surprised if those installations are not counted at least in thousands.
      - vardump 3y ago
        "the statement "all Teslas are EVs" because of the one ICE conversion from Rich Rebuilds." You can actually buy these CSS DC chargers online and have them installed. Comparing to something one-off rather unreasonable.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
      The EU CCS2 uses 3-phase AC. Good for fast power transfer, but 3-phase AC isn't available in residential zones in the US (unlike in the EU). Unless you're willing to pay tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the power company to run new power lines into your neighborhood, install a new 3-phase pole transformer for your house, rewire your house to have a 3-phase breaker panel, etc.

theluketaylor 3y ago

CCS is the big DC pins at the bottom. Ford and GM home charging happens via J-1772, the smaller AC pins. Tesla re-uses pins for both AC and DC which is a big part of why their handles are so much smaller than CCS Combo 1. There are plenty of adaptors for Tesla <--> J-1772 already on the market. A popular one is called TeslaTap for J-1772 to connect to Tesla wallboxes and destination chargers. A big downside of both J-1772 and NACS is they don't support 3-phase power. Type-2 in europe is very similar to J-1772 and will happily use 3-phase thanks to some extra pins. Not a big deal for home users, but operators of EV fleets could find 3-phase charging overnight very useful.

mkozlows 3y ago

The answer here is: Yes. People are being weird pedants about J1772 vs. CCS to try to confuse this answer, but if you have a home J1772 adapter that plugs into your CCS car, and you get an NACS car in the future, you'll need to use an adapter. There is no current V2H/V2L functionality on any NACS car, and nobody is sure how/if it would work. How Ford will handle that functionality on a hypothetical CCS-based F150 Lightning remains to be seen.