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At a minimum, If somebody invest in such an ecosystem and is banned from it, the company should have you buy back the equipment at original retail value. This

At a minimum, If somebody invest in such an ecosystem and is banned from it, the company should have you buy back the equipment at original retail value. This is just a start. There has to be some monetary penalty for the company to nudge them into less flipped reactions. I also think there maybe should be blowback for false accusations on people who report them. Basically. You better damn well be sure you head what you heard. It’s becoming to easy to yell racist run away and ruin somebody’s life. A secondary of this is the media. We keep saying there are racist everywhere. Even Biden said the biggest problem America has is white supremacy. People are going to find a racisim with out without it one actually existing.

plagiarist 3y ago
It is not normal, well adjusted people who are online writing that we need a "bloodier Waco" simply because a criminal is being indicted, it is white supremacists. Biden was right. Whose life has been ruined by a single false accusation of racism? Racism absolutely does exist, unfortunately. That weird digression aside, yeah. People are spending money on content that can be taken away on a whim, or basing much of their lives around email platforms that can deactivate their accounts at any moment. There should be stronger legal protections.
- fortran77 3y ago
  > Whose life has been ruined by a single false accusation of racism? Let’s start with the woman who tried to rent a Citi Bike last week. And how about the Duke lacrosse players?
mym1990 3y ago
Racism IS everywhere, and most of it happens subconsciously. No one wants to look in the mirror and admit that an action they took was racist, and the prevalence of false positives are probably very much outweighed by false negatives.
- atleastoptimal 3y ago
  It's still worse in my opinion to accuse an innocent person falsely of racism than to fail to catch a non-violent act of racism, especially when the definition of what is "racist" seems to change depending on the person you ask.
  - mym1990 3y ago
    Non-violent racism is most of racism. That includes things like POC getting access to the same opportunities in the job market, in the credit market, in basically every aspect of life. From what I have seen, it is much less likely that someone will call racism out when it happens, much like women do not generally come forward after abuse. If you can't see the problem in your statement, you are part of it.
    - atleastoptimal 3y ago
      What you are talking about are instances of systemic racism due to differences in power (i.e. someone holds power over someone else and wields discretion in favor of their racial biases). This is different than the type of racism described in OP. In that case, Amazon held much more power over this person's life than that person held over his Amazon delivery driver, and even though the entire interaction was in the view of recording devices, Amazon still decided to assume the worst. I wouldn't even say it's as much a problem of racism as it is large corporations making snap judgements without a care for the consequences. Even so, the a fundamental axiom of the American justice system is that it is worse to imprison an innocent man than let a guilty man go free.
- mike741 3y ago
  > No one wants to look in the mirror and admit that Then that includes the employees and executives at Amazon and is all the more reason to not allow them to punish others for behavior that is (according to you) universal.
  - mym1990 3y ago
civilitty 3y ago
> Even Biden said the biggest problem America has is white supremacy. That was in the context of domestic terrorism: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/14/biden-white-supremacy-howard-university/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/14/biden-whi... The FBI has been warning about the growing threat since at least Trump’s term.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Even before Trump, the FBI was publishing warnings about white supremicists[0] in law enforcement being a great domestic threat. I wish I could find the full report, but they've been talking about it for decades. The run up to Trump, his presidency, and now his decline are definitely adding enormous fuel to the fire. Doesn't help Republicans now see white supremacists as a voting bloc they can manipulate. [0]: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/qxf56q-o0zwb/02.pdf https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/qxf5...
jstarfish 3y ago
> I also think there maybe should be blowback for false accusations on people who report them. Basically. You better damn well be sure you head what you heard. It’s becoming to easy to yell racist run away and ruin somebody’s life. You can't punish "false" accusations without silencing people from making any accusation out of fear lack of substantiation will be interpreted as false. We can't say that the driver did this maliciously; he may well have heard what he thought he did. The driver isn't the problem; he was aggrieved and reported it, as he was entitled to. Tampering with someone's thermostat because you were entrusted with access to it and later decided you don't like them is sociopathic, and every bit as monstrous as deploying ransomware in a fucking hospital. I guarantee you no diligence was done to prevent collateral damage. More than the driver (blameless) or Amazon itself, this particular executive needs to be taken to task for such recklessness. Interfering with life support or communications systems is just fucked; we do that shit as acts of sabotage during war, and it's domestic violence when it occurs between spouses. Even your utility company needs to give advance notice of termination. Yahoos acting on bad intel one too many times and punishing the innocent is literally what instigated Black Lives Matter. The irony is lost on Unnamed Amazon Executive.
- 40yearoldman 3y ago
  > lack of substantiation Without this there is no action anybody can take... We can't live in a world where accusations without evidence hold weight, nothing will get done and everybody can just accuse anybody of anything to get their way. Unpopular opinion, but people need to grow up. You getting called a name should probably in any case, not be actionable. And in retro, if you think a door bell called you a name you probably are unfit to deliver packages to any doors, and should seek mental help.
  - mym1990 3y ago
    So basically if someone gets raped in a dark alley, there is no recourse for action ever? Do you even know how ring doorbells work? The owners inside can talk through them, avoiding confrontation, and saying whatever they want.
renewiltord 3y ago
I think it's probably worth thinking a little bit about whether it's worth incentivizing making a comment that Amazon thinks is racist in order to get free returns. Some of the time, the comments will be actually racist, and I'm certainly not on board with the "call your delivery guy the n word if you want free returns" philosophy.
- 40yearoldman 3y ago
  That is the entire point. Amazon has to make a decision better than what they did to handle the situation. What I am driving at is you call your delivery guy the N word has nothing to do with the extended services within the house. It just so happens Amazon owns a delivery service, and thus the shutdown spread from that into far more. If somebody is harassing their delivery guy in any way, yeah, fine, don't deliver, make them pick it up at some location and use normal laws to deal with the harassment. You would never get your amazon account canceled if the USPS worker said you called them a name. In short, Amazon has to break up their business, at least when it comes for abuse issues on boundaries that have clear lines. You fuck around with the Amazon deliver guy should not lock you out of your S3 account, shut and kill your AWS instances. Just as breaking some AWS rule should not prevent you from ordering and having delivered products from Amazon's main website.

plagiarist 3y ago

It is not normal, well adjusted people who are online writing that we need a "bloodier Waco" simply because a criminal is being indicted, it is white supremacists. Biden was right. Whose life has been ruined by a single false accusation of racism? Racism absolutely does exist, unfortunately. That weird digression aside, yeah. People are spending money on content that can be taken away on a whim, or basing much of their lives around email platforms that can deactivate their accounts at any moment. There should be stronger legal protections.

fortran77 3y ago
> Whose life has been ruined by a single false accusation of racism? Let’s start with the woman who tried to rent a Citi Bike last week. And how about the Duke lacrosse players?

mym1990 3y ago

Racism IS everywhere, and most of it happens subconsciously. No one wants to look in the mirror and admit that an action they took was racist, and the prevalence of false positives are probably very much outweighed by false negatives.

atleastoptimal 3y ago
It's still worse in my opinion to accuse an innocent person falsely of racism than to fail to catch a non-violent act of racism, especially when the definition of what is "racist" seems to change depending on the person you ask.
- mym1990 3y ago
  Non-violent racism is most of racism. That includes things like POC getting access to the same opportunities in the job market, in the credit market, in basically every aspect of life. From what I have seen, it is much less likely that someone will call racism out when it happens, much like women do not generally come forward after abuse. If you can't see the problem in your statement, you are part of it.
  - atleastoptimal 3y ago
    What you are talking about are instances of systemic racism due to differences in power (i.e. someone holds power over someone else and wields discretion in favor of their racial biases). This is different than the type of racism described in OP. In that case, Amazon held much more power over this person's life than that person held over his Amazon delivery driver, and even though the entire interaction was in the view of recording devices, Amazon still decided to assume the worst. I wouldn't even say it's as much a problem of racism as it is large corporations making snap judgements without a care for the consequences. Even so, the a fundamental axiom of the American justice system is that it is worse to imprison an innocent man than let a guilty man go free.
mike741 3y ago
> No one wants to look in the mirror and admit that Then that includes the employees and executives at Amazon and is all the more reason to not allow them to punish others for behavior that is (according to you) universal.
- mym1990 3y ago

civilitty 3y ago

> Even Biden said the biggest problem America has is white supremacy. That was in the context of domestic terrorism: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/14/biden-white-supremacy-howard-university/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/14/biden-whi... The FBI has been warning about the growing threat since at least Trump’s term.

no_wizard 3y ago
Even before Trump, the FBI was publishing warnings about white supremicists[0] in law enforcement being a great domestic threat. I wish I could find the full report, but they've been talking about it for decades. The run up to Trump, his presidency, and now his decline are definitely adding enormous fuel to the fire. Doesn't help Republicans now see white supremacists as a voting bloc they can manipulate. [0]: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/qxf56q-o0zwb/02.pdf https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/qxf5...

jstarfish 3y ago

> I also think there maybe should be blowback for false accusations on people who report them. Basically. You better damn well be sure you head what you heard. It’s becoming to easy to yell racist run away and ruin somebody’s life. You can't punish "false" accusations without silencing people from making any accusation out of fear lack of substantiation will be interpreted as false. We can't say that the driver did this maliciously; he may well have heard what he thought he did. The driver isn't the problem; he was aggrieved and reported it, as he was entitled to. Tampering with someone's thermostat because you were entrusted with access to it and later decided you don't like them is sociopathic, and every bit as monstrous as deploying ransomware in a fucking hospital. I guarantee you no diligence was done to prevent collateral damage. More than the driver (blameless) or Amazon itself, this particular executive needs to be taken to task for such recklessness. Interfering with life support or communications systems is just fucked; we do that shit as acts of sabotage during war, and it's domestic violence when it occurs between spouses. Even your utility company needs to give advance notice of termination. Yahoos acting on bad intel one too many times and punishing the innocent is literally what instigated Black Lives Matter. The irony is lost on Unnamed Amazon Executive.

40yearoldman 3y ago
> lack of substantiation Without this there is no action anybody can take... We can't live in a world where accusations without evidence hold weight, nothing will get done and everybody can just accuse anybody of anything to get their way. Unpopular opinion, but people need to grow up. You getting called a name should probably in any case, not be actionable. And in retro, if you think a door bell called you a name you probably are unfit to deliver packages to any doors, and should seek mental help.
- mym1990 3y ago
  So basically if someone gets raped in a dark alley, there is no recourse for action ever? Do you even know how ring doorbells work? The owners inside can talk through them, avoiding confrontation, and saying whatever they want.

renewiltord 3y ago

I think it's probably worth thinking a little bit about whether it's worth incentivizing making a comment that Amazon thinks is racist in order to get free returns. Some of the time, the comments will be actually racist, and I'm certainly not on board with the "call your delivery guy the n word if you want free returns" philosophy.

40yearoldman 3y ago
That is the entire point. Amazon has to make a decision better than what they did to handle the situation. What I am driving at is you call your delivery guy the N word has nothing to do with the extended services within the house. It just so happens Amazon owns a delivery service, and thus the shutdown spread from that into far more. If somebody is harassing their delivery guy in any way, yeah, fine, don't deliver, make them pick it up at some location and use normal laws to deal with the harassment. You would never get your amazon account canceled if the USPS worker said you called them a name. In short, Amazon has to break up their business, at least when it comes for abuse issues on boundaries that have clear lines. You fuck around with the Amazon deliver guy should not lock you out of your S3 account, shut and kill your AWS instances. Just as breaking some AWS rule should not prevent you from ordering and having delivered products from Amazon's main website.