4 ms·

I'm going to disagree that "the world is way better". Don't get me wrong, there's been progress, but there's also a lot of ways it's objectively worse. + Sign

I'm going to disagree that "the world is way better". Don't get me wrong, there's been progress, but there's also a lot of ways it's objectively worse. + Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago + Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years + Economic mobility is significantly worse + The education system is in worse shape than 20+ years ago + Higher education is more costly, and no longer improves prospects of gainful employment nor additional earning potential + Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation + Kids today will be living under a surveillance state from day 1 Yes, technology has advanced, and some social issues have made progress, but others have had significant setbacks (rollback of Roe v Wade, uptick in far right ideologies).

treis 3y ago
>+ Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago This is slightly true. Gini index when I was born was 38ish and now it's 40ish. So slightly worse but also because the rich have gotten richer. Not because the poor have gotten poorer in an absolute sense. >+ Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years That's an odd way to say things aren't different from what they were 20 years ago. >+ Economic mobility is significantly worse I don't think that is true. Do you have a cite. Addressing one more: >Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation Anyone talking about health insurance is just not remembering how it was. If words like "HMO" and "pre-existing condition" and "Lifetime maximum" don't send shivers down your spine then you're not correctly remembering how terrible it was. For all the flaws the US health care system has it's simply miles ahead of what it was pre-Obamacare.
- polygotdomain 3y ago
  >>+ Economic mobility is significantly worse >I don't think that is true. Do you have a cite. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on-the-ladder-wealth-mobility-is-low-and-decreases-with-age/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on-... There's also studies out there that show where you were born/raised can have a significant impact on mobility >>+ Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years >That's an odd way to say things aren't different from what they were 20 years ago. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that wages have gone up at a lower rate than inflation, therefore leaving the majority of the working class with less buying power than they used to have. >>+ Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago >This is slightly true. Gini index when I was born was 38ish and now it's 40ish. So slightly worse but also because the rich have gotten richer. Not because the poor have gotten poorer in an absolute sense. I think there's more than just the Gini index. Here's an interesting chart that shows the slight rise in Gini that you referenced, but combined with other measures that factor into income inequality. The data is only until 2015, but I doubt it's gotten any better since then. https://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/usa/ https://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-... >>Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation >Anyone talking about health insurance is just not remembering how it was. If words like "HMO" and "pre-existing condition" and "Lifetime maximum" don't send shivers down your spine then you're not correctly remembering how terrible it was. For all the flaws the US health care system has it's simply miles ahead of what it was pre-Obamacare. I didn't say that health insurance isn't better than it was. All I'm saying is that costs have outpaced inflation. It doesn't matter because the US healthcare system is still a massive farce and simply exists to leach profits off the American public. Even those that make well into the 6 figures are just one accident or diagnosis away from being massively in debt or driven into destitution just to afford medical care.
  - treis 3y ago
    >https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on- https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on-... >There's also studies out there that show where you were born/raised can have a significant impact on mobility I didn't see anything in that article about if and how much worse is today than it used to be. > I'm saying that wages have gone up at a lower rate than inflation, That's just factually incorrect. Real hourly wages have held steady since the 60s and are slightly up from when millennials were born: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-... ... This is why I don't usually like to wade into these debates. People have a warped perception of how things used to be and how they've changed.
    - shakow 3y ago
      > That's just factually incorrect This kind of curve without at least an estimation of the variance does not mean anything.
howmayiannoyyou 3y ago
+ Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago The opposite is occurring in countries that prioritized manufacturing jobs and skilled trades. The liberal arts, service led economy turned out to be a lie - as some of us knew all along. + Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years Inflation can be supply side, demand side, or both. US monetary policy, trade policy and foreign aid lifted about 2 billion people out of poverty in places like China, India and elsewhere. That is 2 billion new consumers of the same day-to-day living essentials you want -- at the very same time US supply side capacity was reduced by offshoring and new regs. We made the bed we are now sleeping in. + Economic mobility is significantly worse For those without skills in demand this is true. Unskilled and wrong-skilled labor is largely worthless in the US, but pays a subsistence wage in some other countries - in exchange for horrid working conditions. + The education system is in worse shape than 20+ years ago + Higher education is more costly, and no longer improves prospects of gainful employment nor additional earning potential I don't see the problem. I have kids in school and they are learning about gender equality, racism, white privilege and social justice. This is what the teachers want to teach, what the school boards support & what the media talks about most days. Isn't this an improvement from the barbaric reading, writing & arithmetic days of old? + Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation Hold on there. My 83 year old father only expended hundreds of thousands of medicare dollars on chemo and supportive care for an extra three months of life - for which my family is very grateful. We cannot deprive the elderly of extra time, no matter how miserable it may be, just to make healthcare more affordable for kids and people in the prime of their life. That would be agism! + Kids today will be living under a surveillance state from day 1 But fortunately the surveillance will be from the CCP via TikTok, and from corporations via Instagram, SnapChat, etc. We don't need to worry about USGOV surveillance because its only weaponized against prominent political opponents, and not against the average citizen. In sum... the status quo is what most people claimed they wanted without any serious consideration of the follow on effects. You get not only the government you deserve in a democracy, but also the economy and social structure you deserve.

treis 3y ago

>+ Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago This is slightly true. Gini index when I was born was 38ish and now it's 40ish. So slightly worse but also because the rich have gotten richer. Not because the poor have gotten poorer in an absolute sense. >+ Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years That's an odd way to say things aren't different from what they were 20 years ago. >+ Economic mobility is significantly worse I don't think that is true. Do you have a cite. Addressing one more: >Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation Anyone talking about health insurance is just not remembering how it was. If words like "HMO" and "pre-existing condition" and "Lifetime maximum" don't send shivers down your spine then you're not correctly remembering how terrible it was. For all the flaws the US health care system has it's simply miles ahead of what it was pre-Obamacare.

polygotdomain 3y ago
>>+ Economic mobility is significantly worse >I don't think that is true. Do you have a cite. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on-the-ladder-wealth-mobility-is-low-and-decreases-with-age/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on-... There's also studies out there that show where you were born/raised can have a significant impact on mobility >>+ Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years >That's an odd way to say things aren't different from what they were 20 years ago. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that wages have gone up at a lower rate than inflation, therefore leaving the majority of the working class with less buying power than they used to have. >>+ Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago >This is slightly true. Gini index when I was born was 38ish and now it's 40ish. So slightly worse but also because the rich have gotten richer. Not because the poor have gotten poorer in an absolute sense. I think there's more than just the Gini index. Here's an interesting chart that shows the slight rise in Gini that you referenced, but combined with other measures that factor into income inequality. The data is only until 2015, but I doubt it's gotten any better since then. https://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/usa/ https://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-... >>Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation >Anyone talking about health insurance is just not remembering how it was. If words like "HMO" and "pre-existing condition" and "Lifetime maximum" don't send shivers down your spine then you're not correctly remembering how terrible it was. For all the flaws the US health care system has it's simply miles ahead of what it was pre-Obamacare. I didn't say that health insurance isn't better than it was. All I'm saying is that costs have outpaced inflation. It doesn't matter because the US healthcare system is still a massive farce and simply exists to leach profits off the American public. Even those that make well into the 6 figures are just one accident or diagnosis away from being massively in debt or driven into destitution just to afford medical care.
- treis 3y ago
  >https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on- https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/06/29/stuck-on-... >There's also studies out there that show where you were born/raised can have a significant impact on mobility I didn't see anything in that article about if and how much worse is today than it used to be. > I'm saying that wages have gone up at a lower rate than inflation, That's just factually incorrect. Real hourly wages have held steady since the 60s and are slightly up from when millennials were born: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-... ... This is why I don't usually like to wade into these debates. People have a warped perception of how things used to be and how they've changed.
  - shakow 3y ago
    > That's just factually incorrect This kind of curve without at least an estimation of the variance does not mean anything.

howmayiannoyyou 3y ago

+ Significantly more income inequality than 20+ years ago The opposite is occurring in countries that prioritized manufacturing jobs and skilled trades. The liberal arts, service led economy turned out to be a lie - as some of us knew all along. + Stagnated wages relative to inflation for much more than 20+ years Inflation can be supply side, demand side, or both. US monetary policy, trade policy and foreign aid lifted about 2 billion people out of poverty in places like China, India and elsewhere. That is 2 billion new consumers of the same day-to-day living essentials you want -- at the very same time US supply side capacity was reduced by offshoring and new regs. We made the bed we are now sleeping in. + Economic mobility is significantly worse For those without skills in demand this is true. Unskilled and wrong-skilled labor is largely worthless in the US, but pays a subsistence wage in some other countries - in exchange for horrid working conditions. + The education system is in worse shape than 20+ years ago + Higher education is more costly, and no longer improves prospects of gainful employment nor additional earning potential I don't see the problem. I have kids in school and they are learning about gender equality, racism, white privilege and social justice. This is what the teachers want to teach, what the school boards support & what the media talks about most days. Isn't this an improvement from the barbaric reading, writing & arithmetic days of old? + Health insurance costs that significantly outpace inflation Hold on there. My 83 year old father only expended hundreds of thousands of medicare dollars on chemo and supportive care for an extra three months of life - for which my family is very grateful. We cannot deprive the elderly of extra time, no matter how miserable it may be, just to make healthcare more affordable for kids and people in the prime of their life. That would be agism! + Kids today will be living under a surveillance state from day 1 But fortunately the surveillance will be from the CCP via TikTok, and from corporations via Instagram, SnapChat, etc. We don't need to worry about USGOV surveillance because its only weaponized against prominent political opponents, and not against the average citizen. In sum... the status quo is what most people claimed they wanted without any serious consideration of the follow on effects. You get not only the government you deserve in a democracy, but also the economy and social structure you deserve.