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I'm not European but I find it incredibly bizarre that you would prefer such a thing. The worst Elon Musk can do to you is kick you off his platform. As soon as

I'm not European but I find it incredibly bizarre that you would prefer such a thing. The worst Elon Musk can do to you is kick you off his platform. As soon as a government gets involved you're looking at being potentially locked in a cage like an animal for expressing your opinion. They say the people get the government they deserve though.

dotandgtfo 3y ago
If your opinion consists of propagating hate, encouraging hate crimes and sharing death threats online I believe it's in order with a fine and potentially a light prison sentence for repeat offenders, yes. I don't believe that my government will turn to tyranny suddenly when it's generally had a pretty good history of not going off the rails. I don't buy the slippery slope argument/fallacy. >They say the people get the government they deserve though. Touche. I'd be more concerned about this in the US with your highly polarized yo-yo politics.
- shapenamer 3y ago
  Making death threats is already illegal and is not a "hate crime". You're advocating for governments to make more speech illegal, speech that you don't agree with. As far as your government turning to tyranny. I can't think of many governments that turned to tyranny multiple times. They are usually removed, or stay in power. "My government is not currently tyrannical so I'm confident it will stay that way", is a strange way to think if you've read much history, imo.
  - dotandgtfo 3y ago
    >You're advocating for governments to make more speech illegal Yes, and I'm arguing for stricter enforcement of current laws around these topics. I'm not saying that people can't discuss immigration policy. I'm saying that people shouldn't discuss immigration policy through inciting to violence and racism. And I'm saying that Elon Musk is absolutely the last person I'd want to be the arbiter of what speech is legal or not. Yes, the Norwegian government has some not so great history of discriminating against the native population hundreds of years ago, the Roma people last century, LGB people ~30 years ago and most recently drug users. But thinking that "Because there's always a slim chance my government can go rogue we should minimise its power" is a strange and uniquely American way of thinking by the way. My views are not uncommon in Europe. But they are at odds with the US/Libertarian slant you find here.
    - shapenamer 3y ago
      I think it's very strange to say it's uniquely American when there have been, historically, far more tyrannical governments in Europe than just about anywhere else in the world and countries like Germany have criminalized basically any positive display/speech about their past tyrannical government. Your views may not be uncommon, but they're certainly not universal, and even if they were, that wouldn't make them correct, or even well thought out. >I'm saying that people shouldn't discuss immigration policy through inciting to violence and racism. And I'm saying that Elon Musk is absolutely the last person I'd want to be the arbiter of what speech is legal or not. Yes and I still think I'd rather be kicked off twitter by Musk than locked in a jail for saying the wrong thing. I honestly have no idea why you believe that the members of your government are more fair/just/whatever than anyone else, including Musk. They're not, and that's why they should have limited power.
      - dotandgtfo 3y ago
        > I honestly have no idea why you believe that the members of your government are more fair/just/whatever than anyone else, including Musk. They're not, and that's why they should have limited power. I'll just dip out of this conversation right here. We have a fundamentally different view of how society is built up, functions and should work. > Your views may not be uncommon, but they're certainly not universal, and even if they were, that wouldn't make them correct, or even well thought out. Touche.
        shapenamer 3y ago
        Ok, that's fair. Just to be clear I was not trying to insult you or your government. Just pointing out that the people that make up your government are very normal people with the same weaknesses and blind-spots as the rest of us. At the risk of seeming like I need the last word and further risk of sounding very cliche, there is a quote by a man named Martin Niemöller, a German man, about a German government, that I believe, tells us in no uncertain terms, that the slippery slope fallacy is not a fallacy AT ALL, and that we should take government powers and limits extremely seriously.

dotandgtfo 3y ago

If your opinion consists of propagating hate, encouraging hate crimes and sharing death threats online I believe it's in order with a fine and potentially a light prison sentence for repeat offenders, yes. I don't believe that my government will turn to tyranny suddenly when it's generally had a pretty good history of not going off the rails. I don't buy the slippery slope argument/fallacy. >They say the people get the government they deserve though. Touche. I'd be more concerned about this in the US with your highly polarized yo-yo politics.

shapenamer 3y ago
Making death threats is already illegal and is not a "hate crime". You're advocating for governments to make more speech illegal, speech that you don't agree with. As far as your government turning to tyranny. I can't think of many governments that turned to tyranny multiple times. They are usually removed, or stay in power. "My government is not currently tyrannical so I'm confident it will stay that way", is a strange way to think if you've read much history, imo.
- dotandgtfo 3y ago
  >You're advocating for governments to make more speech illegal Yes, and I'm arguing for stricter enforcement of current laws around these topics. I'm not saying that people can't discuss immigration policy. I'm saying that people shouldn't discuss immigration policy through inciting to violence and racism. And I'm saying that Elon Musk is absolutely the last person I'd want to be the arbiter of what speech is legal or not. Yes, the Norwegian government has some not so great history of discriminating against the native population hundreds of years ago, the Roma people last century, LGB people ~30 years ago and most recently drug users. But thinking that "Because there's always a slim chance my government can go rogue we should minimise its power" is a strange and uniquely American way of thinking by the way. My views are not uncommon in Europe. But they are at odds with the US/Libertarian slant you find here.
  - shapenamer 3y ago
    I think it's very strange to say it's uniquely American when there have been, historically, far more tyrannical governments in Europe than just about anywhere else in the world and countries like Germany have criminalized basically any positive display/speech about their past tyrannical government. Your views may not be uncommon, but they're certainly not universal, and even if they were, that wouldn't make them correct, or even well thought out. >I'm saying that people shouldn't discuss immigration policy through inciting to violence and racism. And I'm saying that Elon Musk is absolutely the last person I'd want to be the arbiter of what speech is legal or not. Yes and I still think I'd rather be kicked off twitter by Musk than locked in a jail for saying the wrong thing. I honestly have no idea why you believe that the members of your government are more fair/just/whatever than anyone else, including Musk. They're not, and that's why they should have limited power.
    - dotandgtfo 3y ago
      > I honestly have no idea why you believe that the members of your government are more fair/just/whatever than anyone else, including Musk. They're not, and that's why they should have limited power. I'll just dip out of this conversation right here. We have a fundamentally different view of how society is built up, functions and should work. > Your views may not be uncommon, but they're certainly not universal, and even if they were, that wouldn't make them correct, or even well thought out. Touche.
      - shapenamer 3y ago
        Ok, that's fair. Just to be clear I was not trying to insult you or your government. Just pointing out that the people that make up your government are very normal people with the same weaknesses and blind-spots as the rest of us. At the risk of seeming like I need the last word and further risk of sounding very cliche, there is a quote by a man named Martin Niemöller, a German man, about a German government, that I believe, tells us in no uncertain terms, that the slippery slope fallacy is not a fallacy AT ALL, and that we should take government powers and limits extremely seriously.