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Wow, there're a lot to parse here, and it looks like you're coming at this from an "I've already decided" and "axe to grind" angle. > - Lockdowns did little to

by mft_ 3y ago

Wow, there're a lot to parse here, and it looks like you're coming at this from an "I've already decided" and "axe to grind" angle. > - Lockdowns did little to prevent the spread of COVID... <citation needed> > - Cloth masks were pointless security theatre <citation needed> - and most rational people (and countries) immediately switched to N95 masks as soon as supply chains could support the demand. That said, I'd bet that even less-proven masks would have some lesser but still positive impact. > - The vast majority of people except the very elderly and obese were in very little danger ...except there are plenty of examples of fit, young people having life-altering acute and/or longer-term symptoms. On a population-level, you're right that the numbers are small(er), but I'd argue that each individual case to the contrary is a disaster for the indiviudal involved. As Stalin said: “The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic.” You appear to be looking at the statistics; I was happy to accept changes to my lifestyle to diminish risk of harm to individuals. > - The vaccines never prevented transmission That's a straw-man argument - that's not the primary purpose of a vaccine. > - The vaccines only offered very limited protection for a brief period Nah. Vaccines offered significant protection against severe disease for a period of months (which itself is a factor of how the human body function). With widespread vaccination, the world was able to 'get on top of' the pandemic, and its effects of healthcare over-utilisation. > - The rate of side effects (including serious side effects up to and including death) is a lot higher than anyone wants to admit. <citation needed> > - To most segments of the population, the danger of death by vaccine side effects is greater than the danger of death by COVID-19 <citation needed>

realjhol 3y ago
>> - Lockdowns did little to prevent the spread of COVID... > <citation needed> https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/# https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdi... >> - Cloth masks were pointless security theatre > <citation needed> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD... > I was happy to accept changes to my lifestyle to diminish risk of harm to individuals. We now have a massive unexplained excess deaths crisis, but suddenly it's "see no evil, hear no evil". >> - The vaccines never prevented transmission > That's a straw-man argument - that's not the primary purpose of a vaccine. That is not public officials and talking heads were saying at the start. See this montage: https://twitter.com/XvirtueSignaler/status/1665770269418614784 https://twitter.com/XvirtueSignaler/status/16657702694186147... > With widespread vaccination, the world was able to 'get on top of' the pandemic The world never "got on top of" COVID. It never had any significant control over it. Omicron came along, and spread through the population with mild symptoms, leading to widespread natural immunity. > its effects of healthcare over-utilisation. That never happened anywhere in the world. >> - The rate of side effects (including serious side effects up to and including death) is a lot higher than anyone wants to admit. > <citation needed> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ In randomized control trials of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines here in the UK, we now know that the risk of serious adverse effects from the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines was 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated i.e. a ~1 in 800 chance of serious adverse effects. >> - To most segments of the population, the danger of death by vaccine side effects is greater than the danger of death by COVID-19 > <citation needed> The UK government has now published its estimate of the number of people needed to vaccinate to prevent a COVID-19 hospitalisation: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1131409/appendix-1-of-jcvi-statement-on-2023-covid-19-vaccination-programme-8-november-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... In Table 3, notice how in every age group except 70+, the number-needed-to-vaccinate to prevent a hospital visit figure is higher than 1 in 800. And in Table 4 notice not even 70+ are more in danger of severe hospitalisation than 1 in 800.

by mft_ 3y ago

realjhol 3y ago

>> - Lockdowns did little to prevent the spread of COVID... > <citation needed> https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/# https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdi... >> - Cloth masks were pointless security theatre > <citation needed> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD... > I was happy to accept changes to my lifestyle to diminish risk of harm to individuals. We now have a massive unexplained excess deaths crisis, but suddenly it's "see no evil, hear no evil". >> - The vaccines never prevented transmission > That's a straw-man argument - that's not the primary purpose of a vaccine. That is not public officials and talking heads were saying at the start. See this montage: https://twitter.com/XvirtueSignaler/status/1665770269418614784 https://twitter.com/XvirtueSignaler/status/16657702694186147... > With widespread vaccination, the world was able to 'get on top of' the pandemic The world never "got on top of" COVID. It never had any significant control over it. Omicron came along, and spread through the population with mild symptoms, leading to widespread natural immunity. > its effects of healthcare over-utilisation. That never happened anywhere in the world. >> - The rate of side effects (including serious side effects up to and including death) is a lot higher than anyone wants to admit. > <citation needed> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/ In randomized control trials of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines here in the UK, we now know that the risk of serious adverse effects from the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines was 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated i.e. a ~1 in 800 chance of serious adverse effects. >> - To most segments of the population, the danger of death by vaccine side effects is greater than the danger of death by COVID-19 > <citation needed> The UK government has now published its estimate of the number of people needed to vaccinate to prevent a COVID-19 hospitalisation: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1131409/appendix-1-of-jcvi-statement-on-2023-covid-19-vaccination-programme-8-november-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... In Table 3, notice how in every age group except 70+, the number-needed-to-vaccinate to prevent a hospital visit figure is higher than 1 in 800. And in Table 4 notice not even 70+ are more in danger of severe hospitalisation than 1 in 800.