4 ms·

The problem solves itself; the societies that are pro-natal will survive and the ones thay are not will die out.

llambda 3y ago
Well, no. That assumes that offspring follow their parents' ideology directly. While many may, some will not. What we've seen over time is a defection from e.g. religious right upbringing, especially as offspring move into denser urban areas.
- ed25519FUUU 3y ago
  Yes there’s departures, revivals, and reversions to the mean. But two parents who feel strongly about something having children will produce children with a certain biological proclivity. It’s a lot to bet that people will deny their own biology.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    There isn't a biological proclivity to liberalism!
    - tivert 3y ago
      > There isn't a biological proclivity to liberalism! Yes, but aren't there biological proclivities to certain personality traits, and then proclivities of people to certain personality traits to political ideology? So if liberals don't reproduce, it could start selection against the "openness to experience" personality trait.
- gaoshan 3y ago
  A small, anecdotal example of this... there is a family in my community that is part of the conservative christian organization called "Quiverfull" that believes in having very large families. The one in our community has 12 children. They see it as creating members for their religion but I would be surprised if more than a couple of these kids end up following along (based on who the kids are turning out to be).
spywaregorilla 3y ago
Not if people leave and go to the pro-natal ones in droves.
dash2 3y ago
But his point is that if you care about liberalism, or Italian culture, then those societies won't survive. So maybe for liberals and Italians to learn a little bit of pronatalism would be a good idea.
pjc50 3y ago
That's .. not a given. One of the societies with the highest birth rate in the late 20th century, Bangladesh, is also one of the ones most vulnerable to climate change. When population resource pressure really starts to bite, being pro-natal won't save you from genocide, and indeed may be cited by your oppressor as a reason to genocide you.

Well, no. That assumes that offspring follow their parents' ideology directly. While many may, some will not. What we've seen over time is a defection from e.g. religious right upbringing, especially as offspring move into denser urban areas.

ed25519FUUU 3y ago
Yes there’s departures, revivals, and reversions to the mean. But two parents who feel strongly about something having children will produce children with a certain biological proclivity. It’s a lot to bet that people will deny their own biology.
- pjc50 3y ago
  There isn't a biological proclivity to liberalism!
  - tivert 3y ago
    > There isn't a biological proclivity to liberalism! Yes, but aren't there biological proclivities to certain personality traits, and then proclivities of people to certain personality traits to political ideology? So if liberals don't reproduce, it could start selection against the "openness to experience" personality trait.
gaoshan 3y ago
A small, anecdotal example of this... there is a family in my community that is part of the conservative christian organization called "Quiverfull" that believes in having very large families. The one in our community has 12 children. They see it as creating members for their religion but I would be surprised if more than a couple of these kids end up following along (based on who the kids are turning out to be).

spywaregorilla 3y ago

Not if people leave and go to the pro-natal ones in droves.

dash2 3y ago

But his point is that if you care about liberalism, or Italian culture, then those societies won't survive. So maybe for liberals and Italians to learn a little bit of pronatalism would be a good idea.

pjc50 3y ago

That's .. not a given. One of the societies with the highest birth rate in the late 20th century, Bangladesh, is also one of the ones most vulnerable to climate change. When population resource pressure really starts to bite, being pro-natal won't save you from genocide, and indeed may be cited by your oppressor as a reason to genocide you.