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> There’s an elderly gentleman who works at the local pharmacy store. > He’s bent over and moves slowly. His hair is uncombed and a dull vacancy lurks in his e

> There’s an elderly gentleman who works at the local pharmacy store. > He’s bent over and moves slowly. His hair is uncombed and a dull vacancy lurks in his eyes. He’s always there so he must need the money. > His sadness is contagious. This drives me crazy. You don't know anything about this guy. One time I took an airport shuttle and the driver was ancient, the bus was empty and we started chatting. He loves driving the bus, he does this to stay busy, he's retired but enjoys having a purpose and talking to people (such as myself). He told me all about his kids and their careers. My point is you have absolutely no idea why anyone does anything, unless you ask them. Projecting sadness onto strangers says more about yourself than the subject.

soneca 3y ago
> ”I try to say something kind or friendly to encourage him. Sometimes he perks up momentarily, offering a half smile and faint twinkle in his eye” I bet that was the old guy disguising the annoyance of having a patronizing customer.
jansan 3y ago
Talking to those people is always great. It either gives them a way to share their problems with somebody, or you find someone who has a really interesting past and you can learn a lot. Best thing that ever happened to us was meeting a retired space engineer who worked on the Hubble telescope. My son was wearing a NASA sweater with an explosion drawing of the Hubble, and the old man explained on his shirt how the Hubble works and on what parts he had worked. I still regret that on another occation I did not talk to a man sitting next to me on a station platform. He looked exactly like a bum who had spent the previous night sleeping on the sidewalk in his own piss, but at second sight I noticed that his clothes were not only clean, but quite expensive (still looking shabby from distance), and he had a brand new expensive Rimowa suitcase. I would have loved to hear his story, but I had to catch my train.
hospitalJail 3y ago
My dad took a terrible accounting/logistics job for $15 an hour last year.Like the whole business was completely F'd, they no longer exist today. My dad, who did programming his whole life, didn't care. He was retired, he enjoyed the interactions with humans and the problems he was solving. He probably was providing $60+/hr of value since he would automate it. If you saw a grey'd dude that is absurdly skinny drag himself into an office(He hated the commute, he always hates driving), you'd think he was miserable. No, he was happy to be there, he just doesnt like driving.
the_third_wave 3y ago
We were hitch-hiking from Vancouver to Whitehorse in 2001 and ended up being stranded somewhere in redneck territory - imagine a bunch of guys in a pickup truck driving past while hollering "hey buddy grow some tits and we'll give you a ride" - when we finally got a ride on a big rig. The driver was 72 years old, name of Ken, callsign "Big D" on CB. He took us all the way to Whitehorse since he was running a load of condensate to the north of Alaska anyway and it was on the route (which is understandable given that there is only one Alaska Highway). Being in the truck with him for 1½ days we got to talk - which is why he took hitch-hikers along in the first place - and touched the subject of him driving that truck while he could have been enjoying his pension. 'I tried it, being pensioned, but did not like it' he said so he just took right off where he left. As long as his body and mind held out he wanted to keep on doing this work 'cause sitting at home was boring. Having left Whitehorse in a canoe on our way to the Bering strait we met another 72 years old man, this one named Tom. Tom was also paddling the Yukon, or maybe I should say he was enjoying the current taking him downstream. His plan was to paddle the whole river like we were doing but he was doing it in stages where he would take to the river for a few days, then find his way back to his truck somehow to get his canoe. Tom was a pensioned school teacher, he lived on his own in a cabin and quite liked being pensioned but not hanging around in his cabin all the time so he sometimes took to the river. When I reach that age I suspect I'll do something similar seeing how as I think I'd be bored by the "normal" life of a pensioner.
coldtea 3y ago
>This drives me crazy. You don't know anything about this guy. Doesn't have to. With some empathy you can often tell. Also don't need to know anything to know that 70+ year olds don't work at some menial service industry job in countries where they can afford to retire. >He loves driving the bus, he does this to stay busy, he's retired but enjoys having a purpose and talking to people (such as myself). My point is you have absolutely no idea why anyone does anything, unless you ask them. That would tell you even less in many cases. I wouldn't necessarily believe the story a stranger would present for their circumstances either. Part of it will probably be saving safe, or making himself look better than "70-something that can't afford to retire and is forced to drive around". The fact is, loving it or not, he probably works because he 100% needs the money. So a health incident, or some emergency (like his house needing repairs, or a rent hike) could wipe him out.
- googlryas 3y ago
  > With some empathy you can often tell. This doesn't sound like empathy - it sounds like stereotyping. Instead of getting to know someone and finding out about them, or accepting that you just don't know details about their life, you develop a story of their life in head based on nothing but your gut feeling. > Also don't need to know anything to know that 70+ year olds don't work at some menial service industry job in countries where they can afford to retire. Is Sweden one of those countries where people can afford to retire? Because they have about the same rate of 75+ year olds working as the US. https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/02/22/the-rise-of-elderly-workers-who-works-beyond-the-age-of-65-or-75-in-europe https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/02/22/the-rise-of-elderly... https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/states-with-the-largest-share-of-workers-age-75-and-older https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/states-wi...
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >Is Sweden one of those countries where people can afford to retire? Because they have about the same rate of 75+ year olds working as the US. From the very link you provided, regarding Sweden: "a succession of policy choices have pushed older people into work". And from the report they link to: "The latest pension reform (a defined contribution scheme) has increased the economic incentives to work longer. Parallel, it has become more difficult to get a disability pension even for only medical reasons. (...) Several political decisions were also taken from the early 1990s on to counteract early retirement and increase the actual retirement age. (...) There is a clear socio-economic gradient in the age of retirement. Low-skilled jobs have lower wages and worse working conditions, work environment and occupational protection. The difference in “lost years”, i.e. the number of years that people exit from the labour market before reaching age 65, between early and late exit jobs amounts to 4.82 years for men (“Other sales and services elementary occupations” compared to “College, university and higher education teaching professionals”). For women, the difference is 5.55 years." Rather than some socialist paradise, as is the stereotype of Sweden in the US (well, though compared to which, it might very well be), the political establishment there has been increasingly pushing neoliberal reforms for decades now.
Veen 3y ago
It’s not a documentary purporting to be a factual examination of multiple people’s life stories or an analysis of social attitudes to the elderly. It’s a touching essay detailing one man’s thoughts and experiences as he moves through life, presented with the intention of eliciting certain feelings and thoughts in the reader. And that’s all it needs to be. Here’s an alternative perspective about getting old. Maybe you’ll enjoy it more: https://allpoetry.com/The-Old-Fools https://allpoetry.com/The-Old-Fools
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  And my counterpoint is that "old men working" is not the same as "society has failed these dull, vacant-eyed poors". I'm arguing for dignity
  - weard_beard 3y ago
    If the old man told Weiss what he was feeling we wouldn’t get the artistry of his rumination. It’s like the student who hates the exercise of inferring authorial intent and ascribing situations and plots as metaphors in high school English. The point isn’t to KNOW the authors intent. The point is to understand what it means to YOU! You’re both right. This piece was about a sad old man. This piece makes us ponder our unknowable connections and the loss of dignity in suffering and old age. This piece can mean many things to many people. That’s what makes it good.
  - bugglebeetle 3y ago
    Dignity being manifested through work is more of a Western illness, informed by Protestant Ideology and all of its accompanying baggage. Many other societies have roles for the elderly that do not require them to be service workers and all the corresponding degradation and abuse that comes along with it. And I say this as someone who spent many years in these kinds of jobs and found them in no way to be wholesome, engaging, or dignified. At least in the American context, people are remarkably rude and demanding to those who they deem beneath them, which is most often determined by the jobs they perform, how much money they have, etc. Assuming someone is miserable in these jobs may not always be correct, but it’s also not in anyway improbable. I and all my coworkers certainly were.
olalonde 3y ago
I have an independently wealthy friend that regularly operates a small food truck at the beach because he likes cooking and meeting people. His food is priced at cost so he doesn't make money from it. I wonder how many people pity him.
- inamorty 3y ago
  I would imagine his demeanor would influence how he is perceived.
- netsharc 3y ago
  Here's me projecting, but I could say "poor man, he needs the social contact so badly he'd rather slave away in a tiny hot kitchen rather than enjoy his money vacationing, for example in fancy hotels and restaurants.". Which is obviously bullshit, he seems happy from your description, and if I were in his place doing the travelling would I be asking myself "What's the point?"?Probably yes.
- beavis000 3y ago
  yep, this. Dude is wise and I'd guess spent some miserable periods doing nothing to realize this truth.
beavis000 3y ago
Now that i'm in my 50s, i realize the enormous benefits of working as you get into your 60s and 70s and, hopefully, 80s. The social interaction and mental stimulation, sense of purpose, just having things to do and that make you feel productive.

soneca 3y ago

> ”I try to say something kind or friendly to encourage him. Sometimes he perks up momentarily, offering a half smile and faint twinkle in his eye” I bet that was the old guy disguising the annoyance of having a patronizing customer.

jansan 3y ago

Talking to those people is always great. It either gives them a way to share their problems with somebody, or you find someone who has a really interesting past and you can learn a lot. Best thing that ever happened to us was meeting a retired space engineer who worked on the Hubble telescope. My son was wearing a NASA sweater with an explosion drawing of the Hubble, and the old man explained on his shirt how the Hubble works and on what parts he had worked. I still regret that on another occation I did not talk to a man sitting next to me on a station platform. He looked exactly like a bum who had spent the previous night sleeping on the sidewalk in his own piss, but at second sight I noticed that his clothes were not only clean, but quite expensive (still looking shabby from distance), and he had a brand new expensive Rimowa suitcase. I would have loved to hear his story, but I had to catch my train.

hospitalJail 3y ago

My dad took a terrible accounting/logistics job for $15 an hour last year.Like the whole business was completely F'd, they no longer exist today. My dad, who did programming his whole life, didn't care. He was retired, he enjoyed the interactions with humans and the problems he was solving. He probably was providing $60+/hr of value since he would automate it. If you saw a grey'd dude that is absurdly skinny drag himself into an office(He hated the commute, he always hates driving), you'd think he was miserable. No, he was happy to be there, he just doesnt like driving.

the_third_wave 3y ago

We were hitch-hiking from Vancouver to Whitehorse in 2001 and ended up being stranded somewhere in redneck territory - imagine a bunch of guys in a pickup truck driving past while hollering "hey buddy grow some tits and we'll give you a ride" - when we finally got a ride on a big rig. The driver was 72 years old, name of Ken, callsign "Big D" on CB. He took us all the way to Whitehorse since he was running a load of condensate to the north of Alaska anyway and it was on the route (which is understandable given that there is only one Alaska Highway). Being in the truck with him for 1½ days we got to talk - which is why he took hitch-hikers along in the first place - and touched the subject of him driving that truck while he could have been enjoying his pension. 'I tried it, being pensioned, but did not like it' he said so he just took right off where he left. As long as his body and mind held out he wanted to keep on doing this work 'cause sitting at home was boring. Having left Whitehorse in a canoe on our way to the Bering strait we met another 72 years old man, this one named Tom. Tom was also paddling the Yukon, or maybe I should say he was enjoying the current taking him downstream. His plan was to paddle the whole river like we were doing but he was doing it in stages where he would take to the river for a few days, then find his way back to his truck somehow to get his canoe. Tom was a pensioned school teacher, he lived on his own in a cabin and quite liked being pensioned but not hanging around in his cabin all the time so he sometimes took to the river. When I reach that age I suspect I'll do something similar seeing how as I think I'd be bored by the "normal" life of a pensioner.

coldtea 3y ago

>This drives me crazy. You don't know anything about this guy. Doesn't have to. With some empathy you can often tell. Also don't need to know anything to know that 70+ year olds don't work at some menial service industry job in countries where they can afford to retire. >He loves driving the bus, he does this to stay busy, he's retired but enjoys having a purpose and talking to people (such as myself). My point is you have absolutely no idea why anyone does anything, unless you ask them. That would tell you even less in many cases. I wouldn't necessarily believe the story a stranger would present for their circumstances either. Part of it will probably be saving safe, or making himself look better than "70-something that can't afford to retire and is forced to drive around". The fact is, loving it or not, he probably works because he 100% needs the money. So a health incident, or some emergency (like his house needing repairs, or a rent hike) could wipe him out.

googlryas 3y ago
> With some empathy you can often tell. This doesn't sound like empathy - it sounds like stereotyping. Instead of getting to know someone and finding out about them, or accepting that you just don't know details about their life, you develop a story of their life in head based on nothing but your gut feeling. > Also don't need to know anything to know that 70+ year olds don't work at some menial service industry job in countries where they can afford to retire. Is Sweden one of those countries where people can afford to retire? Because they have about the same rate of 75+ year olds working as the US. https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/02/22/the-rise-of-elderly-workers-who-works-beyond-the-age-of-65-or-75-in-europe https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/02/22/the-rise-of-elderly... https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/states-with-the-largest-share-of-workers-age-75-and-older https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/states-wi...
- coldtea 3y ago
  >Is Sweden one of those countries where people can afford to retire? Because they have about the same rate of 75+ year olds working as the US. From the very link you provided, regarding Sweden: "a succession of policy choices have pushed older people into work". And from the report they link to: "The latest pension reform (a defined contribution scheme) has increased the economic incentives to work longer. Parallel, it has become more difficult to get a disability pension even for only medical reasons. (...) Several political decisions were also taken from the early 1990s on to counteract early retirement and increase the actual retirement age. (...) There is a clear socio-economic gradient in the age of retirement. Low-skilled jobs have lower wages and worse working conditions, work environment and occupational protection. The difference in “lost years”, i.e. the number of years that people exit from the labour market before reaching age 65, between early and late exit jobs amounts to 4.82 years for men (“Other sales and services elementary occupations” compared to “College, university and higher education teaching professionals”). For women, the difference is 5.55 years." Rather than some socialist paradise, as is the stereotype of Sweden in the US (well, though compared to which, it might very well be), the political establishment there has been increasingly pushing neoliberal reforms for decades now.

Veen 3y ago

It’s not a documentary purporting to be a factual examination of multiple people’s life stories or an analysis of social attitudes to the elderly. It’s a touching essay detailing one man’s thoughts and experiences as he moves through life, presented with the intention of eliciting certain feelings and thoughts in the reader. And that’s all it needs to be. Here’s an alternative perspective about getting old. Maybe you’ll enjoy it more: https://allpoetry.com/The-Old-Fools https://allpoetry.com/The-Old-Fools

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
monero-xmr 3y ago
And my counterpoint is that "old men working" is not the same as "society has failed these dull, vacant-eyed poors". I'm arguing for dignity
- weard_beard 3y ago
  If the old man told Weiss what he was feeling we wouldn’t get the artistry of his rumination. It’s like the student who hates the exercise of inferring authorial intent and ascribing situations and plots as metaphors in high school English. The point isn’t to KNOW the authors intent. The point is to understand what it means to YOU! You’re both right. This piece was about a sad old man. This piece makes us ponder our unknowable connections and the loss of dignity in suffering and old age. This piece can mean many things to many people. That’s what makes it good.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  Dignity being manifested through work is more of a Western illness, informed by Protestant Ideology and all of its accompanying baggage. Many other societies have roles for the elderly that do not require them to be service workers and all the corresponding degradation and abuse that comes along with it. And I say this as someone who spent many years in these kinds of jobs and found them in no way to be wholesome, engaging, or dignified. At least in the American context, people are remarkably rude and demanding to those who they deem beneath them, which is most often determined by the jobs they perform, how much money they have, etc. Assuming someone is miserable in these jobs may not always be correct, but it’s also not in anyway improbable. I and all my coworkers certainly were.

olalonde 3y ago

I have an independently wealthy friend that regularly operates a small food truck at the beach because he likes cooking and meeting people. His food is priced at cost so he doesn't make money from it. I wonder how many people pity him.

inamorty 3y ago
I would imagine his demeanor would influence how he is perceived.
netsharc 3y ago
Here's me projecting, but I could say "poor man, he needs the social contact so badly he'd rather slave away in a tiny hot kitchen rather than enjoy his money vacationing, for example in fancy hotels and restaurants.". Which is obviously bullshit, he seems happy from your description, and if I were in his place doing the travelling would I be asking myself "What's the point?"?Probably yes.
beavis000 3y ago
yep, this. Dude is wise and I'd guess spent some miserable periods doing nothing to realize this truth.

beavis000 3y ago

Now that i'm in my 50s, i realize the enormous benefits of working as you get into your 60s and 70s and, hopefully, 80s. The social interaction and mental stimulation, sense of purpose, just having things to do and that make you feel productive.