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How about not driving a car absolutely everywhere? Even electric cars use many times more energy than an entire household. I already eat less meat than I used t

How about not driving a car absolutely everywhere? Even electric cars use many times more energy than an entire household. I already eat less meat than I used to but I cannot look past the obscenely high energy use of a car

myshpa 3y ago
Yes ... fossil fuels absolutely too ... that's another reason why WFH is so important.
OGWhales 3y ago
Where I live currently, that’s simply infeasible. It’s a city, just very poor public transit and the city was designed without pedestrians or bikers in mind. I hope to move soon, and being able to walk/bike/take public transit is a priority for where I choose, but it makes me think there are so many places in the US where going anywhere without a car is not a realistic option. Car dependency is a big issue in the US.
- lm28469 3y ago
  > Where I live currently, that’s simply infeasible. Technology let use thrive in places we shouldn't even have lived in the first place, a lot of people just "can't" do anything, that's why we're fucked
  - OGWhales 3y ago
    The area was established prior to cars and was livable, but as it grew everything was designed with cars in mind and made it unlivable without them. So it’s not that cars made an unlivable place otherwise livable, it’s that cars made a livable place unlivable without them. It’s certainly possible for another form of transit to exist in this town, but everything was designed with cars in mind and there is little interest in fixing it, because almost everyone has a car (excluding those that can't afford them, but we don't talk about that or the weak economic mobility that lack of proper public transit absolutely contributes to).
- r00fus 3y ago
  > It’s a city, just very poor public transit There's your answer, yet you hand wave it away. Mass transit for not just intracity but also putting housing close to where people want to go (parks/stores). My non-US wife often jokes about "US city planning" being an oxymoron, and I just can't defend it.
  - OGWhales 3y ago
    I think you got the wrong impression from my comment. I’m not hand waving it at all, I’m highlighting how much of an issue it is in the US and how unlikely it is to change. This is an issue I’m pretty passionate about and while I’ve put a lot of effort in locally to change this, I’ve come to realize it’s not something that’s gonna be fixed in my life time. This is why I intend to move to a place that already has good public transit and good walkability. I would hope that the demise of gas powered cars would lead to a surge of focus on non-car transportation and improved city/suburban design, but I fear that car dependency will continue on as it seems most people in the US greatly prefer the idea of electric cars to anything else. It’s a shame, as I believe cars themselves to be problematic for a whole host of reasons and I feel our society is missing out on a good opportunity to transition away from them. I’ll keep fighting the fight, but there is only so much one can do.
kiklion 3y ago
Uh what? Quick google shows that a Hyundai Ioniq gets around 4 miles per kWh. An average US household uses 886 kWh per month. You’d have to drive 3,500 miles a month to have the electric car use more energy than the entire household. Yes, there is an energy cost in building the car, but there’s also an energy cost in building the refrigerator and dryer and washing machine etc in the house. I’m sure some electric cars are worse than the Ioniq, but they’d have to be considerably worse to equal the energy used by a household.
- Brotkrumen 3y ago
  >An average US household uses 886 kWh per month Oh wow. The average German household of three uses 2500kwh in a multi-tenant and 3500kwh in a single family home PER YEAR.
  - wyager 3y ago
    Wow, that's terrible. Do Germans not have as good of climate control or something? I wonder what it would take to get German energy consumption up to a better level. It looks like wholesale electricity costs in Germany are around 4x higher than in the US.
    - milliams 3y ago
      I think you missed the PER YEAR part. 3500 kwh per year is only 292 kwh per month, which is about three times lower than the US number quoted.
      - wyager 3y ago
        I didn't miss that. I'm saying it's concerning that Germany's energy availability is so impoverished. To quote myself: > I wonder what it would take to get German energy consumption up to a better level.
        Timon3 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
katbyte 3y ago
It might be more impactful to move as many things back to trains instead of trucking everything across the country

myshpa 3y ago

Yes ... fossil fuels absolutely too ... that's another reason why WFH is so important.

OGWhales 3y ago

Where I live currently, that’s simply infeasible. It’s a city, just very poor public transit and the city was designed without pedestrians or bikers in mind. I hope to move soon, and being able to walk/bike/take public transit is a priority for where I choose, but it makes me think there are so many places in the US where going anywhere without a car is not a realistic option. Car dependency is a big issue in the US.

lm28469 3y ago
> Where I live currently, that’s simply infeasible. Technology let use thrive in places we shouldn't even have lived in the first place, a lot of people just "can't" do anything, that's why we're fucked
- OGWhales 3y ago
  The area was established prior to cars and was livable, but as it grew everything was designed with cars in mind and made it unlivable without them. So it’s not that cars made an unlivable place otherwise livable, it’s that cars made a livable place unlivable without them. It’s certainly possible for another form of transit to exist in this town, but everything was designed with cars in mind and there is little interest in fixing it, because almost everyone has a car (excluding those that can't afford them, but we don't talk about that or the weak economic mobility that lack of proper public transit absolutely contributes to).
r00fus 3y ago
> It’s a city, just very poor public transit There's your answer, yet you hand wave it away. Mass transit for not just intracity but also putting housing close to where people want to go (parks/stores). My non-US wife often jokes about "US city planning" being an oxymoron, and I just can't defend it.
- OGWhales 3y ago
  I think you got the wrong impression from my comment. I’m not hand waving it at all, I’m highlighting how much of an issue it is in the US and how unlikely it is to change. This is an issue I’m pretty passionate about and while I’ve put a lot of effort in locally to change this, I’ve come to realize it’s not something that’s gonna be fixed in my life time. This is why I intend to move to a place that already has good public transit and good walkability. I would hope that the demise of gas powered cars would lead to a surge of focus on non-car transportation and improved city/suburban design, but I fear that car dependency will continue on as it seems most people in the US greatly prefer the idea of electric cars to anything else. It’s a shame, as I believe cars themselves to be problematic for a whole host of reasons and I feel our society is missing out on a good opportunity to transition away from them. I’ll keep fighting the fight, but there is only so much one can do.

kiklion 3y ago

Uh what? Quick google shows that a Hyundai Ioniq gets around 4 miles per kWh. An average US household uses 886 kWh per month. You’d have to drive 3,500 miles a month to have the electric car use more energy than the entire household. Yes, there is an energy cost in building the car, but there’s also an energy cost in building the refrigerator and dryer and washing machine etc in the house. I’m sure some electric cars are worse than the Ioniq, but they’d have to be considerably worse to equal the energy used by a household.

Brotkrumen 3y ago
>An average US household uses 886 kWh per month Oh wow. The average German household of three uses 2500kwh in a multi-tenant and 3500kwh in a single family home PER YEAR.
- wyager 3y ago
  Wow, that's terrible. Do Germans not have as good of climate control or something? I wonder what it would take to get German energy consumption up to a better level. It looks like wholesale electricity costs in Germany are around 4x higher than in the US.
  - milliams 3y ago
    I think you missed the PER YEAR part. 3500 kwh per year is only 292 kwh per month, which is about three times lower than the US number quoted.
    - wyager 3y ago
      I didn't miss that. I'm saying it's concerning that Germany's energy availability is so impoverished. To quote myself: > I wonder what it would take to get German energy consumption up to a better level.
      - Timon3 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

katbyte 3y ago

It might be more impactful to move as many things back to trains instead of trucking everything across the country