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How Dangerous Are Motorcycles?

2 points by dmbche 3y ago

rowanG077 3y ago
I love the mental gymnastics to make up a "safe" motorcyclist group. But doesn't do the same thing for car drivers. This article is a great example of "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".
- dmbche 3y ago
  I get what you mean - but since motorcycles are more specific use than cars, I think it's fair. I think it more reasonable to never be under any substance - for example- when riding a bike rather than a car, since most people will have the option between both, so the groups are more valid. But yeah it's still 17x more on average
injb 3y ago
I don't know about the stats used in the article, but I agree with the gist of it: stats only tell you the chances of a statistically average person being killed, but that isn't very useful or insightful because of the enormous range in people's behavior and attitude to safety. People don't understand this basic fact about averages: you throw away most of the information! If you want to talk about the chances of dying in a plane crash, then these kinds of stats are ideal, because everyone who flies has about the same chance, and there's nothing you can do to change it. But with motorbikes, you can influence your chances of surviving. And not just a little bit! When I started I remember reading that something like almost half of fatal motorcycle accidents in the US don't involve another vehicle. Incredible! Literally almost none of those people need to die - they are dying because they go too fast, don't wear proper safety gear, refuse to use their brakes, and/or they never explicitly learned how to control a bike. All choices. There's a major caveat to all that though: yes you might behave better than many other motorcyclists, but it takes discipline. That's why bad behavior is so popular (it's easy). How much to you trust yourself to never make a mistake? So yes it is dangerous but you do have a lot of control but extra-but also you will probably have the occasional lapse in that control. Rather than dangerous, the word I tend to use for motorcycles, small aircraft, bad neighborhoods etc. is unforgiving.
whatever230610 3y ago
A helluva lot less safe now than fifteen years ago, because half the drivers have their face stuck to a g.d. phone instead of paying attention to their surroundings. It’s suicidal to ride in traffic now.

2 points by dmbche 3y ago

I love the mental gymnastics to make up a "safe" motorcyclist group. But doesn't do the same thing for car drivers. This article is a great example of "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

dmbche 3y ago
I get what you mean - but since motorcycles are more specific use than cars, I think it's fair. I think it more reasonable to never be under any substance - for example- when riding a bike rather than a car, since most people will have the option between both, so the groups are more valid. But yeah it's still 17x more on average

injb 3y ago

I don't know about the stats used in the article, but I agree with the gist of it: stats only tell you the chances of a statistically average person being killed, but that isn't very useful or insightful because of the enormous range in people's behavior and attitude to safety. People don't understand this basic fact about averages: you throw away most of the information! If you want to talk about the chances of dying in a plane crash, then these kinds of stats are ideal, because everyone who flies has about the same chance, and there's nothing you can do to change it. But with motorbikes, you can influence your chances of surviving. And not just a little bit! When I started I remember reading that something like almost half of fatal motorcycle accidents in the US don't involve another vehicle. Incredible! Literally almost none of those people need to die - they are dying because they go too fast, don't wear proper safety gear, refuse to use their brakes, and/or they never explicitly learned how to control a bike. All choices. There's a major caveat to all that though: yes you might behave better than many other motorcyclists, but it takes discipline. That's why bad behavior is so popular (it's easy). How much to you trust yourself to never make a mistake? So yes it is dangerous but you do have a lot of control but extra-but also you will probably have the occasional lapse in that control. Rather than dangerous, the word I tend to use for motorcycles, small aircraft, bad neighborhoods etc. is unforgiving.

whatever230610 3y ago

A helluva lot less safe now than fifteen years ago, because half the drivers have their face stuck to a g.d. phone instead of paying attention to their surroundings. It’s suicidal to ride in traffic now.