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What many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably

What many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably hasn't ended yet) in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have any positive expectations when she became PM but she seems to be doing ok.

lultimouomo 3y ago
You can easily dislike the Italian left for a number of reasons, but being commies is definitely not one of them.
gsatic 3y ago
Thinking about it...the left doesn't seem to have entrepreneurs in political leadership positions. Can't think of anyone World over.
- bombolo 3y ago
  Because entrepreneurs make laws against workers, which is a right wing thing.
peoplefromibiza 3y ago
> in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). That's a pretty bad description of the situation in Italy. First of all we (I am from Italy, I voted in 1994 when Berlusconi bootstrapped his political career) have a large number of parties. In 1994 there were at least 20 symbols grouped in 2 main coalitions. Secondly, the communist were already a thing of the past, they dissolved in 3 different groups in 1992, but communists in Italy have a strong tradition and have been the backbone of our democracy. Last but not least, the left in Italy is divided in an infinite number of movements and parties, communists were historically the largest one but Italy has a Socialist party that is separated from the Communists. p.s. corruption of the Communists (as a political party) has never been proved anywhere.
- gpderetta 3y ago
  Incidentally, many Socialist refugees that managed not to get jailed during the Mani Pulite purges, ended up in Berlusconi's party. Incidentally Incidentally, Berlusconi was really a man of equal opportunities: he didn't really care about your beliefs, political background, gender or sexual orientation, as long as you could help him get more power, money, or at least keep him out of jail.
  - hulitu 3y ago
    > was really a man of equal opportunities: he didn't really care about your beliefs, political background, gender or sexual orientation, as long as you could help him get more power, money This is the perfect definition of a politician. And sadly it applies to 99% of them in a "democracy".
  - peoplefromibiza 3y ago
    > Incidentally, many Socialist refugees that managed not to get jailed during the Mani Pulite purges, It wasn't really a purge, anyway not so many, just those that were on the Bettino Craxi's side, who was close friend with Berlusconi, who was best man in the second Berlusconi's marriage, a man who's considered the one who ruined the Italian Socialist Party beyond recover. Proof is the two Craxi's sons: Stefania ended up with the center-right coalition, Bobo with the center left and he's still member of the PSI (Italian Socialist Party) > Berlusconi was really a man of equal opportunities That's a bit romantic. He had a lot of help from corrupted politicians and organized crime. He simply escaped justice for enough time to make the narrative of the political victim stick.
    - gpderetta 3y ago
      >> Berlusconi was really a man of equal opportunities >That's a bit romantic. To be clear, my description was very much tongue in cheek. The man had no discernable sense of morals. He very brazenly allied to whomever he needed to further his interests. For example he was always very friendly with Putin and I wouldn't be surprised if a Russian exile was always an open option if things went south at home.
stefantalpalaru 3y ago
[dead]
thefz 3y ago
> Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. This government like any other has failed to address the big themes and is concentrating on stupid, more media-friendly stuff. Zero addressing themes of tax evasion, public health, public school, work reform... the list goes on.
bombolo 3y ago
A pleasant surprise? A government that says "we do whatever USA tells us to do, against our own interest" is good? If you're from USA I guess…
- NoRelToEmber 3y ago
  > "we do whatever USA tells us to do, against our own interest" This statement sounds like criticism, not an endorsement of such state of affairs. But I was unable to find a source for it, so context or a citation would be welcome.

lultimouomo 3y ago

You can easily dislike the Italian left for a number of reasons, but being commies is definitely not one of them.

gsatic 3y ago

Thinking about it...the left doesn't seem to have entrepreneurs in political leadership positions. Can't think of anyone World over.

bombolo 3y ago
Because entrepreneurs make laws against workers, which is a right wing thing.

peoplefromibiza 3y ago

> in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). That's a pretty bad description of the situation in Italy. First of all we (I am from Italy, I voted in 1994 when Berlusconi bootstrapped his political career) have a large number of parties. In 1994 there were at least 20 symbols grouped in 2 main coalitions. Secondly, the communist were already a thing of the past, they dissolved in 3 different groups in 1992, but communists in Italy have a strong tradition and have been the backbone of our democracy. Last but not least, the left in Italy is divided in an infinite number of movements and parties, communists were historically the largest one but Italy has a Socialist party that is separated from the Communists. p.s. corruption of the Communists (as a political party) has never been proved anywhere.

gpderetta 3y ago
Incidentally, many Socialist refugees that managed not to get jailed during the Mani Pulite purges, ended up in Berlusconi's party. Incidentally Incidentally, Berlusconi was really a man of equal opportunities: he didn't really care about your beliefs, political background, gender or sexual orientation, as long as you could help him get more power, money, or at least keep him out of jail.
- hulitu 3y ago
  > was really a man of equal opportunities: he didn't really care about your beliefs, political background, gender or sexual orientation, as long as you could help him get more power, money This is the perfect definition of a politician. And sadly it applies to 99% of them in a "democracy".
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  > Incidentally, many Socialist refugees that managed not to get jailed during the Mani Pulite purges, It wasn't really a purge, anyway not so many, just those that were on the Bettino Craxi's side, who was close friend with Berlusconi, who was best man in the second Berlusconi's marriage, a man who's considered the one who ruined the Italian Socialist Party beyond recover. Proof is the two Craxi's sons: Stefania ended up with the center-right coalition, Bobo with the center left and he's still member of the PSI (Italian Socialist Party) > Berlusconi was really a man of equal opportunities That's a bit romantic. He had a lot of help from corrupted politicians and organized crime. He simply escaped justice for enough time to make the narrative of the political victim stick.
  - gpderetta 3y ago
    >> Berlusconi was really a man of equal opportunities >That's a bit romantic. To be clear, my description was very much tongue in cheek. The man had no discernable sense of morals. He very brazenly allied to whomever he needed to further his interests. For example he was always very friendly with Putin and I wouldn't be surprised if a Russian exile was always an open option if things went south at home.

stefantalpalaru 3y ago

[dead]

thefz 3y ago

> Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. This government like any other has failed to address the big themes and is concentrating on stupid, more media-friendly stuff. Zero addressing themes of tax evasion, public health, public school, work reform... the list goes on.

bombolo 3y ago

A pleasant surprise? A government that says "we do whatever USA tells us to do, against our own interest" is good? If you're from USA I guess…

NoRelToEmber 3y ago
> "we do whatever USA tells us to do, against our own interest" This statement sounds like criticism, not an endorsement of such state of affairs. But I was unable to find a source for it, so context or a citation would be welcome.