7 ms·

Reddit won't die for the same reason Facebook won't... there's no real viable alternative for the majority of the users. It might become a bit shitter, it migh

Reddit won't die for the same reason Facebook won't... there's no real viable alternative for the majority of the users. It might become a bit shitter, it might lose a few users who are a bit more tech savvy or from the "old days of the internet" who'll find themselves fedi or forum based alternatives but the majority will keep getting what they want out of it without a reason to move - most users probably use the official app which is rubbish compared to Apollo etc but is sufficient for them. I'd love to see this protest actually work but the cynic in me says it won't, or if it does it'll be a slow death as the 1% leave and the content dries up which then pushes away the majority, and it'll be too slow to save it... only then might we see a viable alternative pop up, but I'm sure it won't be any of the Fedi solutions as they just fragment the communities too much even with the instances opening to each other, but we're already seeing Lemmy instances "defederate" from each other

nebrie 3y ago
There are alternatives. Lemmy has seen incredible growth over the past two weeks.
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  How do you fix the problem for the average user of why the (eg) recipe group on their Lemmy instance is empty, and when/if they do learn that other instances recipe groups are different groups, how they properly follow them all, and why it is their favourite one suddenly disappeared because their instance defed'd from that instance because the other instance also carried trumpsfavouriterecipes? I get and like the principles of the Fediverse but for the average user it's too fragmented, needs too much effort around discoverability, is confusing and promotes echo chambers in some ways worse than Reddit (in that your instance can simply cut off another instance it doesn't agree with - at least in Reddit you can find another sub all on the same instance that meets your echo chambers. Yes you can change instances but supposing that other instance doesn't carry a group you use heavily?) IMO Lemmy's growth will halt once the more intrepid average user decides it's too complex, tells all their friends about it and goes back to Reddit.
  - jtode 3y ago
    People keep talking about having the option to take your content and move as though freedom was a prison. Likewise, the fact that there is a community of instances that have made the choice to have a pleasant space, free of troll farms spewing endless abuse, and are taking that seriously, really seems to have upset a lot of people around here. You can't get the_donald on Reddit either, because fascists make a room stink like farts, and only people who've been huffing their poopy-smelling breath can't see that. I think what's really upsetting for those of the trollish mindset is that while removing the_donald and other fascist subs was more about keeping the site running smoothly and just getting rid of a headache, the decision to lock out gab and truth.social and anyone else who tolerates it is strictly an aesthetic one; they are no longer outcast because they're a pain in the ass, they're outcast because they suck and the whole community agrees. I knew in 2016 that it was just the start of a process of smartening, where people get more optics into the nature of the world and the Internet's place in it. Seven years on, The Smartening proceeds apace, finding ways to have nice things, even with armies of chaos and division trying to tell us to be angry, to rage incoherently at our neighbors, doing everything they can to bring bad feelings into our lives. The platforms are done because there's no more free money for them to play with, and when the big machines that run on that money can't fill up with another funding round, things are already grim and only getting worse. The fediverse is doing alright.
    - sclarisse 3y ago
      I understood the previous remarks as suggesting problem isn’t strictly defederating the-underscore-Donald. It’s that defederation is an incredibly blunt tool, but one of the few tools available, and so you end up with some pretty obnoxious schisms.
      - darreninthenet 3y ago
        That's exactly what I meant, thank you. Perhaps I shouldn't have used a Trump related fake example but it could be as simple as cutting off a peer because the mod is a vegan and wants to cut off meat recipes (and cuts off the best and most populated soccer community at the same time)
Underqualified 3y ago
I've seen UseNet die, so I'm not so sure. What Reddit does (and UseNet before it) is really niche. There aren't as many people on Reddit as there are on Facebook and Reddit isn't as entangled with people's 'real' life as much as social media is.
- mr_mitm 3y ago
  You are right with your last sentence, but reddit is anything but niche. It attracts even politicians and other celebrities, albeit typically only for Q&As. Arnold Schwarzenegger and William Shattner post there for fun with their real names, who knows how many post under pseudonyms. The beauty of reddit is that it attracts even non-technical people who share their insight in their domain (usually anonymous, so to be taken with a grain of salt - but it's usually plausible precisely because reddit is so popular).
  - Underqualified 3y ago
    Reddit has grown significantly the last few years, but it still has only about 50-60 million daily users, compared to Facebook's nearly 2 billion daily users. Don't get me wrong, I like Reddit. Before it I used Usenet, which died and after Usenet I was active on forums (most of those also seem to be gone now). I really prefer those topic based social media to the other user-based social media. But I've seen enough of them die before.
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  I loved Usenet before the mixture of web forums and spam killed it... we need something like this again - decentralised platforms without decentralised community.
xinayder 3y ago
There are viable alternatives, but the average user simply does not care. And by average user I mean someone who literally doesn't bother to use the official reddit client.
yurishimo 3y ago
It pains me to say it, but I think you're right. Reddit for most normies is just another app to consume memes but with comments. I don't think Reddit wants to continue focusing on comments and longer form content. The only advantage to them to keep comments is higher pageviews and ads. The niche communities are starting to go back to their own platforms or Discord. Anecdotally, I've seen more and more comments that remind me of Facebook, a platform I deleted my account for 8 or 9 years ago. I left FB to get away from the brainrot and if Reddit is bringing in more and more of these users, I'd rather go somewhere else. I've added Reddit.com to my Ublock list and am removing Apollo from my home screen. If Reddit doesn't turn this around, I'll be uninstalling at the end of the month. I don't have high hopes.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  > The niche communities are starting to go back to their own platforms or Discord. Ugh, hopefully not more Discord. We have already got way too much hinging on Discord.
makeitdouble 3y ago
I'm with you that a site of that critical size probably won't die, not within a decade. The same was AOL is actually not completely dead. Yahoo! is not dead, Digg isn't either, neither did MySpace. And I'd totally see Tumblr having a full come back to the front of the stage. Another way to put it could be "dead to us" for any specific value of "us".
- rchaud 3y ago
  AOL and Yahoo had advertising revenues Reddit could only dream of. As it stands, a huge chunk of Reddit's content is Twitter and Tiktok reposts. Older users like me enjoyed that because I didn't want to sign up for Twitter and TT. The younger app centric users that Reddit is pivoting to probably have Twitter and TT accounts. So what value is Reddit providing?
lamontcg 3y ago
Everything you describe sounds like a positive outcome for me. Let reddit turn into a wasteland of pun threads, office references, fake ragebait and wholesome content run by AI repost bots, as long as there's a viable alternative for the 1%.

nebrie 3y ago

There are alternatives. Lemmy has seen incredible growth over the past two weeks.

darreninthenet 3y ago
How do you fix the problem for the average user of why the (eg) recipe group on their Lemmy instance is empty, and when/if they do learn that other instances recipe groups are different groups, how they properly follow them all, and why it is their favourite one suddenly disappeared because their instance defed'd from that instance because the other instance also carried trumpsfavouriterecipes? I get and like the principles of the Fediverse but for the average user it's too fragmented, needs too much effort around discoverability, is confusing and promotes echo chambers in some ways worse than Reddit (in that your instance can simply cut off another instance it doesn't agree with - at least in Reddit you can find another sub all on the same instance that meets your echo chambers. Yes you can change instances but supposing that other instance doesn't carry a group you use heavily?) IMO Lemmy's growth will halt once the more intrepid average user decides it's too complex, tells all their friends about it and goes back to Reddit.
- jtode 3y ago
  People keep talking about having the option to take your content and move as though freedom was a prison. Likewise, the fact that there is a community of instances that have made the choice to have a pleasant space, free of troll farms spewing endless abuse, and are taking that seriously, really seems to have upset a lot of people around here. You can't get the_donald on Reddit either, because fascists make a room stink like farts, and only people who've been huffing their poopy-smelling breath can't see that. I think what's really upsetting for those of the trollish mindset is that while removing the_donald and other fascist subs was more about keeping the site running smoothly and just getting rid of a headache, the decision to lock out gab and truth.social and anyone else who tolerates it is strictly an aesthetic one; they are no longer outcast because they're a pain in the ass, they're outcast because they suck and the whole community agrees. I knew in 2016 that it was just the start of a process of smartening, where people get more optics into the nature of the world and the Internet's place in it. Seven years on, The Smartening proceeds apace, finding ways to have nice things, even with armies of chaos and division trying to tell us to be angry, to rage incoherently at our neighbors, doing everything they can to bring bad feelings into our lives. The platforms are done because there's no more free money for them to play with, and when the big machines that run on that money can't fill up with another funding round, things are already grim and only getting worse. The fediverse is doing alright.
  - sclarisse 3y ago
    I understood the previous remarks as suggesting problem isn’t strictly defederating the-underscore-Donald. It’s that defederation is an incredibly blunt tool, but one of the few tools available, and so you end up with some pretty obnoxious schisms.
    - darreninthenet 3y ago
      That's exactly what I meant, thank you. Perhaps I shouldn't have used a Trump related fake example but it could be as simple as cutting off a peer because the mod is a vegan and wants to cut off meat recipes (and cuts off the best and most populated soccer community at the same time)

Underqualified 3y ago

I've seen UseNet die, so I'm not so sure. What Reddit does (and UseNet before it) is really niche. There aren't as many people on Reddit as there are on Facebook and Reddit isn't as entangled with people's 'real' life as much as social media is.

mr_mitm 3y ago
You are right with your last sentence, but reddit is anything but niche. It attracts even politicians and other celebrities, albeit typically only for Q&As. Arnold Schwarzenegger and William Shattner post there for fun with their real names, who knows how many post under pseudonyms. The beauty of reddit is that it attracts even non-technical people who share their insight in their domain (usually anonymous, so to be taken with a grain of salt - but it's usually plausible precisely because reddit is so popular).
- Underqualified 3y ago
  Reddit has grown significantly the last few years, but it still has only about 50-60 million daily users, compared to Facebook's nearly 2 billion daily users. Don't get me wrong, I like Reddit. Before it I used Usenet, which died and after Usenet I was active on forums (most of those also seem to be gone now). I really prefer those topic based social media to the other user-based social media. But I've seen enough of them die before.
darreninthenet 3y ago
I loved Usenet before the mixture of web forums and spam killed it... we need something like this again - decentralised platforms without decentralised community.

xinayder 3y ago

There are viable alternatives, but the average user simply does not care. And by average user I mean someone who literally doesn't bother to use the official reddit client.

yurishimo 3y ago

It pains me to say it, but I think you're right. Reddit for most normies is just another app to consume memes but with comments. I don't think Reddit wants to continue focusing on comments and longer form content. The only advantage to them to keep comments is higher pageviews and ads. The niche communities are starting to go back to their own platforms or Discord. Anecdotally, I've seen more and more comments that remind me of Facebook, a platform I deleted my account for 8 or 9 years ago. I left FB to get away from the brainrot and if Reddit is bringing in more and more of these users, I'd rather go somewhere else. I've added Reddit.com to my Ublock list and am removing Apollo from my home screen. If Reddit doesn't turn this around, I'll be uninstalling at the end of the month. I don't have high hopes.

zelphirkalt 3y ago
> The niche communities are starting to go back to their own platforms or Discord. Ugh, hopefully not more Discord. We have already got way too much hinging on Discord.

makeitdouble 3y ago

I'm with you that a site of that critical size probably won't die, not within a decade. The same was AOL is actually not completely dead. Yahoo! is not dead, Digg isn't either, neither did MySpace. And I'd totally see Tumblr having a full come back to the front of the stage. Another way to put it could be "dead to us" for any specific value of "us".

rchaud 3y ago
AOL and Yahoo had advertising revenues Reddit could only dream of. As it stands, a huge chunk of Reddit's content is Twitter and Tiktok reposts. Older users like me enjoyed that because I didn't want to sign up for Twitter and TT. The younger app centric users that Reddit is pivoting to probably have Twitter and TT accounts. So what value is Reddit providing?

lamontcg 3y ago

Everything you describe sounds like a positive outcome for me. Let reddit turn into a wasteland of pun threads, office references, fake ragebait and wholesome content run by AI repost bots, as long as there's a viable alternative for the 1%.