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The biggest loss from homeworking is the learning element for newer or more junior staff. Many of the learn the job by watching, listening or being shown in per

The biggest loss from homeworking is the learning element for newer or more junior staff. Many of the learn the job by watching, listening or being shown in person. You can still do it remotely but it's way more difficult. The benefits of bouncing ideas off one another is also gone, that can affect creativity. Talking to each other, arguin, breaking down ideas or processes, drawing quick diagrams or knocking up a prototype. Most of that spontaneity is gone and for a company that tells on innovation it's a huge loss. The other important thing lost is the personal development of the employee. The social interaction with others. Having to deal with people and learning, changing adapting any really be done online. If you're an introvert, WFH is perfect for you and you'll never change. Clearly there are benefits, especially for people with families,or a long commute. Hiring is also made easier. I don't think a blanket return to work is what's needed, a more targeted appropriate one might be though, identify who's presence is required and pay them commensurately to be in the office. Working from home gets you less but you get the flexibility.

senttoschool 3y ago
I agree with your first part. Your proposed solution, I disagree with. >I don't think a blanket return to work is what's needed, a more targeted appropriate one might be though, identify who's presence is required and pay them commensurately to be in the office. Working from home gets you less but you get the flexibility. And how exactly do you do this? What if the person who's presence is required in the office depends on people who don't need to be in the office? What now? And how is it fair to everyone that some people can WFH but others can't?
- drumhead 3y ago
  It comes with the job description. People will be intelligent enough to recognise that they need to be in the office, and they'll be rewarded more for it. I think it was the boss of Goldman that told remote workers don't expect a New York salary if your not working in New York.
goofy_goober 3y ago
Heavily disagree with that first part; I have never worked at a company where the juniors learned by watching a senior do his job over his shoulder. They learned by absorbing information over time, doing work, going through code reviews, looking at architecture diagrams, etc. Anything else was done mostly over screen sharing even before COVID. The same is the case at my current company, and the new juniors have had zero troubles with learning. Why? Because all of that can be done remotely. You only need to learn by watching if you are engaging in the physical world, and software itself is not physical at all, so there is never a reason to do anything in "real life" unless your software happens to be operating a robot or other physical device of some kind. There are endless wonderful cheap or free tools to enable everything that was previously in the physical world to be done remotely now, and if a company and it's employees can't use them right then it is a mix of organizational and personal failings.

senttoschool 3y ago

I agree with your first part. Your proposed solution, I disagree with. >I don't think a blanket return to work is what's needed, a more targeted appropriate one might be though, identify who's presence is required and pay them commensurately to be in the office. Working from home gets you less but you get the flexibility. And how exactly do you do this? What if the person who's presence is required in the office depends on people who don't need to be in the office? What now? And how is it fair to everyone that some people can WFH but others can't?

drumhead 3y ago
It comes with the job description. People will be intelligent enough to recognise that they need to be in the office, and they'll be rewarded more for it. I think it was the boss of Goldman that told remote workers don't expect a New York salary if your not working in New York.

goofy_goober 3y ago

Heavily disagree with that first part; I have never worked at a company where the juniors learned by watching a senior do his job over his shoulder. They learned by absorbing information over time, doing work, going through code reviews, looking at architecture diagrams, etc. Anything else was done mostly over screen sharing even before COVID. The same is the case at my current company, and the new juniors have had zero troubles with learning. Why? Because all of that can be done remotely. You only need to learn by watching if you are engaging in the physical world, and software itself is not physical at all, so there is never a reason to do anything in "real life" unless your software happens to be operating a robot or other physical device of some kind. There are endless wonderful cheap or free tools to enable everything that was previously in the physical world to be done remotely now, and if a company and it's employees can't use them right then it is a mix of organizational and personal failings.