7 ms·

I can't get over the fact that he attributed high rents in NYC and SF to.. Apparently the fact that gay people and women are too afraid to move anywhere else fo

I can't get over the fact that he attributed high rents in NYC and SF to.. Apparently the fact that gay people and women are too afraid to move anywhere else for fear of persecution?

themitigating 3y ago
Does he show evidence that gay people are afraid to move other places, if so is the value high end to affects relative to the total population of either city
dmvdoug 3y ago
Or that multiculturalism is responsible for growing inequality, because the trends emerged at roughly the same time (failing to note that that was also the timeframe of emergence for a kind of conservatism that fetishized corporations and abhorred regulations). The whole thing is very painful to read, it’s so dumb. Not least because he very clearly sees himself as a Serious Person.
sebastos 3y ago
I personally find that some soft version of this idea rings very true. It feels like there's a big segment of the population that has inherited this assumption that they would hate living outside of the largest population centers. Of course, everybody's living preferences are always being pushed around by this trend or that, so I'm not saying this situation is unprecedented. But this idea that most of the country is unlivable for progressives seems particularly widespread in its influence, and particularly ill-fitting for most people's actual preferences. I'd wager a lot of people are missing out on a lot of living options they'd actually love because they've unknowingly imported some pernicious memes.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  they've unknowingly imported some pernicious memes https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2023/06/11/nazi-flags-desantis-flags-seen-flying-outside-disney-during-protests/12087812002/ https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2023/06/11/naz... What you call pernicious meme I call not wanting to live amongst neo-Nazis.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    Out of the 23M people living in the 54K square miles of Florida you assume that 2 dozen idiots is the modal populace?
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Bit more than two dozen I'd say. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1158344050/florida-far-right-extremism-politics-desantis https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1158344050/florida-far-right-... https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/01/31/nazi-protests-held-in-florida-over-weekend-condemned/ https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/01/31/nazi-protest... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/01/ron-desantis-neo-nazi-protests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/01/ron-desantis... https://nypost.com/2023/05/08/florida-neo-nazi-who-became-muslim-admits-to-killing-roomates-for-insulting-faith/ https://nypost.com/2023/05/08/florida-neo-nazi-who-became-mu... https://hyperallergic.com/785647/alt-right-protesters-brandish-nazi-flag-at-florida-drag-event/ https://hyperallergic.com/785647/alt-right-protesters-brandi... https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2023/04/25/antisemitism-claims-after-photo-of-melbourne-firefighter-giving-nazi-salute/70148094007/ https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2023/04/25/antisemit...
      - kcplate 3y ago
        Interesting that all your links never describe more than a single person or at most “15-20”. I have lived in Florida for more than four decades with family roots here going back to the 1930s…I can count on one hand with fingers leftover the number times I have encountered a “nazi”. But hey, feel free to stay away if you think you are gonna be surrounded by those assholes. You won’t be of course, because despite what the media and others might claim, Florida is pretty damned diverse and a quick visit to pretty much anywhere here would reveal that.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Interesting that you think 15–20 Nazis (or, you know, people flying the Nazi flag) is acceptable or that any Nazis killing folks is somehow acceptable. But, you know, fair point about going back to the 30s as Florida has historically been klan country. Oh look, the Klan's still nice and active in Florida. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/kkk-allegedly-threatens-gay-political-candidate-florida-n797891 https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/kkk-allegedly-threat... Florida is pretty damned diverse Fair. You've got the klan, neo-nazis, moms for liberty, white lives matter, goyim defense league, natsoc florida, and of course the patriot front. That's pretty diverse. https://www.adl.org/resources/report/hate-sunshine-state-extremism-antisemitism-florida-2020-2022 https://www.adl.org/resources/report/hate-sunshine-state-ext... Even if you were anywhere near correct, Florida is still being run by one man culture war. That shit desantis is pulling? That's not media hyperbole, that's not memes, they're the law of the land. Why would I want to put down roots somewhere that leads the nation in book banning? Or that looked at a shortage of teachers and thought that lowering (well, eliminating) standards was more appropriate than improving conditions? Why would I set down roots somewhere where the government is trying to legislate the opposition party out of existence? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/apr/20/ron-desantis-florida-electoral-map-gerrymandering-republican-advantage https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/apr/... Let's not forget SB1718. I guess that wasn't really meant to be actionable? Just intended to keep the darkies in line? I've gotta figure that the NAACP and HRC are onto something with their travel advisories, but then again I never did buy the "big bad media" myth that you're trying to sell. Florida is an environment that's openly hostile to people who aren't white, heterosexual, christian men. Don't complain when people who aren't in that demographic avoid or leave Florida.
- jitl 3y ago
  I tried the suburbs, no thanks, now I’m gonna try NYC. I want to walk to noodles at 1am.
thebigwinning 3y ago
I have met a ton of greatly exaggerated fears about places > Oh I could never move to Texas. > Florida? What about desantis? The boogieman effect is real here, but I don't know if it causes what Peter says.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >I have met a ton of greatly exaggerated fears about places >> Oh I could never move to Texas. Reddit (for example) is filled with human NPCs, who react in predictable ways without intelligence. One predictable trigger is "Texas". A recent Reddit post discussed something positive about Texas. The replies? Hundreds, maybe thousands, of comments by Redditors, all with no more content than some sneering variant of "Fix your electrical grid first", referring to the harsh winter storm of two years ago that knocked out power to much of the state. It was something to see. If we can dismiss GPT as "just autocomplete" as many do, I can dismiss all those Redditors in the same way; as NPCs. At least GPT AI can produce useful and interesting output.
centmot 3y ago
When you worship false gods, science may come as a shock.
andreskytt 3y ago
What Thiel is describing is a feedback loop: more people of x in a region means more people of x in a region simply because they will feel more comfortable among like people. These sorts of mechanisms certainly exist (Forrester on city planning), but with dynamic systems it’s always more complex than it would seem. Landlords definitely benefit from whatever feedback is making cities grow and are definitely interested in it continuing (thus probably investing in it), but its unlikely they are the ones behind the structure.
readthenotes1 3y ago
He was simply using those as examples of the manipulations used to keep people living in high rent places where no sane person would live if they were not manipulated to do so. And I do not believe that he was saying it was the truth. Instead, I believe he was proposing it as an provocative answer to the question of why anybody would live in San Francisco, etc. when there are many nice places to live that cost less. Did you discard his provocation completely what do you use in its place? Good weather? Good theaters?

I can't get over the fact that he attributed high rents in NYC and SF to.. Apparently the fact that gay people and women are too afraid to move anywhere else for fear of persecution?

themitigating 3y ago

Does he show evidence that gay people are afraid to move other places, if so is the value high end to affects relative to the total population of either city

dmvdoug 3y ago

Or that multiculturalism is responsible for growing inequality, because the trends emerged at roughly the same time (failing to note that that was also the timeframe of emergence for a kind of conservatism that fetishized corporations and abhorred regulations). The whole thing is very painful to read, it’s so dumb. Not least because he very clearly sees himself as a Serious Person.

sebastos 3y ago

I personally find that some soft version of this idea rings very true. It feels like there's a big segment of the population that has inherited this assumption that they would hate living outside of the largest population centers. Of course, everybody's living preferences are always being pushed around by this trend or that, so I'm not saying this situation is unprecedented. But this idea that most of the country is unlivable for progressives seems particularly widespread in its influence, and particularly ill-fitting for most people's actual preferences. I'd wager a lot of people are missing out on a lot of living options they'd actually love because they've unknowingly imported some pernicious memes.

inferiorhuman 3y ago
they've unknowingly imported some pernicious memes https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2023/06/11/nazi-flags-desantis-flags-seen-flying-outside-disney-during-protests/12087812002/ https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2023/06/11/naz... What you call pernicious meme I call not wanting to live amongst neo-Nazis.
- kcplate 3y ago
  Out of the 23M people living in the 54K square miles of Florida you assume that 2 dozen idiots is the modal populace?
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Bit more than two dozen I'd say. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1158344050/florida-far-right-extremism-politics-desantis https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1158344050/florida-far-right-... https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/01/31/nazi-protests-held-in-florida-over-weekend-condemned/ https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/01/31/nazi-protest... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/01/ron-desantis-neo-nazi-protests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/01/ron-desantis... https://nypost.com/2023/05/08/florida-neo-nazi-who-became-muslim-admits-to-killing-roomates-for-insulting-faith/ https://nypost.com/2023/05/08/florida-neo-nazi-who-became-mu... https://hyperallergic.com/785647/alt-right-protesters-brandish-nazi-flag-at-florida-drag-event/ https://hyperallergic.com/785647/alt-right-protesters-brandi... https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2023/04/25/antisemitism-claims-after-photo-of-melbourne-firefighter-giving-nazi-salute/70148094007/ https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2023/04/25/antisemit...
    - kcplate 3y ago
      Interesting that all your links never describe more than a single person or at most “15-20”. I have lived in Florida for more than four decades with family roots here going back to the 1930s…I can count on one hand with fingers leftover the number times I have encountered a “nazi”. But hey, feel free to stay away if you think you are gonna be surrounded by those assholes. You won’t be of course, because despite what the media and others might claim, Florida is pretty damned diverse and a quick visit to pretty much anywhere here would reveal that.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Interesting that you think 15–20 Nazis (or, you know, people flying the Nazi flag) is acceptable or that any Nazis killing folks is somehow acceptable. But, you know, fair point about going back to the 30s as Florida has historically been klan country. Oh look, the Klan's still nice and active in Florida. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/kkk-allegedly-threatens-gay-political-candidate-florida-n797891 https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/kkk-allegedly-threat... Florida is pretty damned diverse Fair. You've got the klan, neo-nazis, moms for liberty, white lives matter, goyim defense league, natsoc florida, and of course the patriot front. That's pretty diverse. https://www.adl.org/resources/report/hate-sunshine-state-extremism-antisemitism-florida-2020-2022 https://www.adl.org/resources/report/hate-sunshine-state-ext... Even if you were anywhere near correct, Florida is still being run by one man culture war. That shit desantis is pulling? That's not media hyperbole, that's not memes, they're the law of the land. Why would I want to put down roots somewhere that leads the nation in book banning? Or that looked at a shortage of teachers and thought that lowering (well, eliminating) standards was more appropriate than improving conditions? Why would I set down roots somewhere where the government is trying to legislate the opposition party out of existence? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/apr/20/ron-desantis-florida-electoral-map-gerrymandering-republican-advantage https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/apr/... Let's not forget SB1718. I guess that wasn't really meant to be actionable? Just intended to keep the darkies in line? I've gotta figure that the NAACP and HRC are onto something with their travel advisories, but then again I never did buy the "big bad media" myth that you're trying to sell. Florida is an environment that's openly hostile to people who aren't white, heterosexual, christian men. Don't complain when people who aren't in that demographic avoid or leave Florida.
jitl 3y ago
I tried the suburbs, no thanks, now I’m gonna try NYC. I want to walk to noodles at 1am.

thebigwinning 3y ago

I have met a ton of greatly exaggerated fears about places > Oh I could never move to Texas. > Florida? What about desantis? The boogieman effect is real here, but I don't know if it causes what Peter says.

TMWNN 3y ago
>I have met a ton of greatly exaggerated fears about places >> Oh I could never move to Texas. Reddit (for example) is filled with human NPCs, who react in predictable ways without intelligence. One predictable trigger is "Texas". A recent Reddit post discussed something positive about Texas. The replies? Hundreds, maybe thousands, of comments by Redditors, all with no more content than some sneering variant of "Fix your electrical grid first", referring to the harsh winter storm of two years ago that knocked out power to much of the state. It was something to see. If we can dismiss GPT as "just autocomplete" as many do, I can dismiss all those Redditors in the same way; as NPCs. At least GPT AI can produce useful and interesting output.

centmot 3y ago

When you worship false gods, science may come as a shock.

andreskytt 3y ago

What Thiel is describing is a feedback loop: more people of x in a region means more people of x in a region simply because they will feel more comfortable among like people. These sorts of mechanisms certainly exist (Forrester on city planning), but with dynamic systems it’s always more complex than it would seem. Landlords definitely benefit from whatever feedback is making cities grow and are definitely interested in it continuing (thus probably investing in it), but its unlikely they are the ones behind the structure.

readthenotes1 3y ago

He was simply using those as examples of the manipulations used to keep people living in high rent places where no sane person would live if they were not manipulated to do so. And I do not believe that he was saying it was the truth. Instead, I believe he was proposing it as an provocative answer to the question of why anybody would live in San Francisco, etc. when there are many nice places to live that cost less. Did you discard his provocation completely what do you use in its place? Good weather? Good theaters?