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Every theory is in the end the discovery of an underlying pattern that can be verified, reproduced and cast our understandimg about something in terms of a redu

Every theory is in the end the discovery of an underlying pattern that can be verified, reproduced and cast our understandimg about something in terms of a reduced set of explanatory factors. The challenge with theories of human societies and economies is that their enormous complexity, constant flux and the inability of the observer to truly distance themselves from the object of study make any proposed explanatory frameworks very sketchy.

dmvdoug 3y ago
Yes, which is why explanatory frameworks for history fall apart when put in contact with the details of history. The value in learning history comes not from the knowledge you acquire about humans, but from the wisdom you gain about human being.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  That is is some finely split hairs. What is knowledge versus wisdom, that debate has gone on for thousands of years. We keep chipping away at wisdom and it turns into knowledge. The wise used to think the sun revolved around the earth. Wisdom seems more like a veneer, or a feeling, that can be dissected until we uncover reality. There have been some some frameworks that were found to be wrong. That doesn't mean we don't continue to try to understand why something happened. And hopefully that helps us 'have wisdom' for the future. If I try to understand why something happened, I might call it a 'framework', and you might call it 'Wisdom'. I think this discussion has too many loosely defined terms that is leading to the confusion.
  - Nifty3929 3y ago
    "The wise used to think the sun revolved around the earth." Or, at least, the wise said they think the sun revolves around the Earth.
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      Touché, perhaps. On thinking about this more. I wonder what wisdom is. If it is something in the mind like a feeling that is difficult to express. Sometimes then it is expressed in some 'wu-wu' type terms. It seem ethereal. And what models, frameworks, etc... are doing, is to try and get wisdom out of the head and onto paper. And perhaps then it is easier to share the wisdom, if it can be boiled down to simpler terms. This boiling down of concepts, lumping, is done in all other fields, it is just very difficult in History so maybe there are far more misses, than hits.

dmvdoug 3y ago

Yes, which is why explanatory frameworks for history fall apart when put in contact with the details of history. The value in learning history comes not from the knowledge you acquire about humans, but from the wisdom you gain about human being.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
That is is some finely split hairs. What is knowledge versus wisdom, that debate has gone on for thousands of years. We keep chipping away at wisdom and it turns into knowledge. The wise used to think the sun revolved around the earth. Wisdom seems more like a veneer, or a feeling, that can be dissected until we uncover reality. There have been some some frameworks that were found to be wrong. That doesn't mean we don't continue to try to understand why something happened. And hopefully that helps us 'have wisdom' for the future. If I try to understand why something happened, I might call it a 'framework', and you might call it 'Wisdom'. I think this discussion has too many loosely defined terms that is leading to the confusion.
- Nifty3929 3y ago
  "The wise used to think the sun revolved around the earth." Or, at least, the wise said they think the sun revolves around the Earth.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    Touché, perhaps. On thinking about this more. I wonder what wisdom is. If it is something in the mind like a feeling that is difficult to express. Sometimes then it is expressed in some 'wu-wu' type terms. It seem ethereal. And what models, frameworks, etc... are doing, is to try and get wisdom out of the head and onto paper. And perhaps then it is easier to share the wisdom, if it can be boiled down to simpler terms. This boiling down of concepts, lumping, is done in all other fields, it is just very difficult in History so maybe there are far more misses, than hits.