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> So, for example If Adobe comes in with an app that links to new web apps that they promote we need to allow that "app store" in, even worse Google could come
by shmerl 3y ago
> So, for example If Adobe comes in with an app that links to new web apps that they promote we need to allow that "app store" in, even worse Google could come up with an app that runs all their 3rd party Chrome web apps and we would need to allow that in too! I don't see why we want to do that. All these apps won't be native, they won't have a relationship or license with us, we won't review them, they won't use our APIs or tools, they won't use our stores, etc.
What a horror - someone won't be using Apple APIs and tools.
This perfectly shows how Apple's ban on other browser engines and all similar restrictions in general are not about security or any other bogus excuses they like to present, but about being anti-competitive lock-in control freaks.
- DrBenCarson 3y agoThey don’t make that argument at all in the quote you pulled. The objection could very well be for security reasons.
- badsectoracula 3y ago> The objection could very well be for security reasons. It could also be for control over users but claiming "security reasons" whenever anyone asks since that has become a "think of the children" topic in tech.
- DrBenCarson 3y agoSure I don’t disagree. My point was that the quote isn’t “proof.”
- ryandrake 3y agoThe thing I took away from this exchange was the total lack of discussion about what’s in the end user’s best interest. What’s best for the user’s experience? It’s all “We want this” and “Facebook wants that” and the end user is just a bystander. Nobody cares what we think or want. For all these companies’ marketing-talk about how they care so much about the end user experience, the executives don’t seem all that interested.
- doctor_eval 3y agoDo you not think that this would already have been discussed when the policy under discussion was first developed? The rationale for the policy - whatever it is - would have been determined well before this problem arose. There would be no need for these people, who would have been central to those policies, to rehash their reasons in these emails. They already know all the arguments.
- shmerl 3y agoAnti-competitive reasons hidden with security excuses is Apple's modus operandi.
- DrBenCarson 3y agoSure I don’t disagree. My point was that the quote isn’t “proof.”
- hgsgm 3y agoCharging 30% doesn't enhance security.
- DrBenCarson 3y agoI’ll let the Google Play Store know.
- detourdog 3y agoDefinitely let them know. Then they can make their store successful enough so that the android developers stop trying to make iOS android.
- detourdog 3y agoCharging a markup on products sold in a store has a long tradition in retail.
- simondotau 3y agoHuh? The parent didn't make that claim. The grandparent wasn't making that claim. And I certainly haven't ever heard Apple stating or implying that free apps are less secure than paid apps.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoAka the mob argument
- Dudester230602 3y agoIf your store is big you can sabotage your providers: Apple to Facebook. If your store is small your providers can sabotage you: Google to Microsoft (Windows Phone). I wonder whom will Apple be begging for more content for their Vision - perhaps Valve? Big respect to Apple though for inadvertently protecting their customers from web "apps". But times will change...
- zitterbewegung 3y agoFrom the latest WWDC (2023) Apple has actually encouraging web app support. In Safari Version 17: Added support for web apps on macOS Sonoma. Add any website to the Dock from the File menu or Share Sheet to get to them even faster. Web apps open in their own window, and integrate with system features like Stage Manager, Screen Time, Notifications, and Focus. (68606770) [1] [1] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-17-release-notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-not...
- shmerl 3y agoEncouraging support while banning competing browser engines doesn't look like encouraging.
- hgsgm 3y agoWhy? As a web app developer or user, the browser engine is low on my list of priorities. Browser engine preferences are about far more niche concerns.
- zitterbewegung 3y agoAs a web app developer your perspective actually makes you desire a monopoly so you only have to test once. But, as a person I don't want that situation at all.
- ryandrake 3y ago
- tambourine_man 3y agoIf you’re steering a platform, you want people to use your APIs and tools. I don’t see how that’s controversial. Otherwise, what are you even doing?
- shmerl 3y agoIt's not about using their APIs and tools. It's about banning competition. That is beyond controversial - it should be illegal. What they should be doing? Competing on merit. Not pushing lock-in.
- tambourine_man 3y agoYou were specifically disdaining Apple’s push to APIs and tools adoption: “What a horror - someone won't be using Apple APIs and tools.”
- pxue 3y agoAllowing third party also circumnavigates Apple's approval process. Personally I don't care about giving up choice if it means reduction of spam.
- hospitalJail 3y agoOn a similar note, I'm happy Reddit is reducing third party apps. Prevents spammy reddit apps.
- pie420 3y agospammy reddit apps?
- code_duck 3y agoIt's illegal when a company has a monopoly, but otherwise that's the nature of business. The line of thought that 'apple has a monopoly in iPhone software distribution' never seemed very compelling to me since they don't have a monopoly on mobile phones in general.
- astrange 3y agoIf other browsers were allowed Chrome would become an all-platform monopoly and there would no longer be real web standards.
- pyrale 3y agoI guess regulators could also antitrust Google in a balancing act.
- kitsunesoba 3y agoTo be fair, the amount of effort that Apple puts into their APIs is well above the industry standard. Cocoa and Cocoa Touch stand with few peers when it comes to depth, breadth, and quality which has been a big factor in the success of their platforms. They’re some of the few SDKs where if you want to, you can produce a top tier app without importing a single third party library, which is no small feat. In their shoes, even if the App Store didn’t exist, I’m sure I wouldn’t be all that thrilled to open the floodgates for lowest common denominator apps built with other toolkits that do nothing to leverage what makes the platforms good and unique.
- shmerl 3y agoThat's never really an excuse for lock-in. If they are so superior, they wouldn't need to worry about developers not using them, right? Using tools as a way to control developers is just disgusting.
- kitsunesoba 3y agoIt doesn't matter how good your SDKs and tooling are, there will always be a large number of developers who will instead prefer options they perceive to be cheaper or more convenient. It's the same reason why McDonalds has no problem selling their food when far higher quality options exist. Outright control is probably overboard yes, but I don't see any reason why a platform maintainer should want to do anything to encourage low-investment apps.
- shmerl 3y agoThere is a huge difference between encouraging and forbidding. And quality or security in the above case are used as an excuse to hide the anti-competitive intent.
- detourdog 3y agoThis is an argument to trust developers and business school grads as opposed to a company that I have a 40+ relationship with. If you want developer freedom choose a different platform. Apple is for users and not developers. We all have the freedom to do whatever we want. Why some people choose to constantly rail against a company they think is ridiculous os mystifying. Move on bless some other platform with your gifts. One should develop for a platform they enjoy.
- donmcronald 3y agoThe thing that surprised me the most is there’s no mention of what makes a better product for the user. It’s all business strategy and scheming to build a silo. I hope regulators obliterate the platform owners.
- classified 3y agoBut then they'd also have to obliterate Microsoft, Google, and who knows what else. This won't happen.
- hospitalJail 3y agoBut the user as almost full control of a M$ and google device. These are not related unless I'm misunderstanding.
- tomaskafka 3y agoReally? Good luck getting rid of Google play services, the mix of core of the operating system and location/ad tracker.