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This is kind of like the Twitter fiasco where in the eye of the storm a lot of loud people are pressuring more people to make this seem a lot bigger than it is.

This is kind of like the Twitter fiasco where in the eye of the storm a lot of loud people are pressuring more people to make this seem a lot bigger than it is. Unless you have some alternative that has Reddit functionality, but can somehow operate without revenue, I'm just going to assume there isn't and Reddit will continue operating as normal. Just doing the math $2.50 seems reasonable if you're going to redistribute the data to users while bypassing the ads.

wpietri 3y ago
If Reddit just cared about having the ads, they could have a free version of the API that includes the inline ads. Or otherwise work with API users to blend in the ads for user-facing clients. They could even kick back a share of that revenue to client makers. As far as I know they're not doing any of that. To me it looks like the goal is to wall off all the user-generated content in an attempt to extract maximum dollars from it while intentionally excluding third parties.
- shagie 3y ago
  What guarantee is there that those inline ads would be rendered by the 3rd party client? What incentive is there for the API users to add in ads that reddit serves for the 3rd party client users? Can reddit be guaranteed get a share of the revenue for the IAP of "block all ads?" Is it worth it for reddit to do it when they can't control the price of said IAP ($0.49 for "block all of Reddit's ads")
  - pawptart 3y ago
    Right? That's what I've never understood. Putting ads in the API is irrelevant, since the 3rd party clients will just ignore them. The Reddit that the loud minority wants is never, ever coming back. These protests are just a blip -- if you don't like what Reddit has become, your only recourse is to leave.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > What guarantee is there that those inline ads would be rendered by the 3rd party client? Because if it isn't then reddit can simply revoke their access. How can reddit know if the ads are being stripped out or not? Simple - download the app, run it and see. The API license can always force things like: 1. Only for apps, whether mobile, desktop or web (i.e. forget about training your LLM on the data) 2. License revoked if content is modified in any way (i.e. no stripping out ads) It's not that difficult, honestly. I've signed more strict agreements with companies (NDAs, and so forth) to access their system, their data, etc.
    - UncleMeat 3y ago
      > Because if it isn't then reddit can simply revoke their access. And then we are right back at the complaints that reddit is killing 3P clients.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    Sorry, why do you think this is a hard question? They look around at the big clients, see anybody who has violated the API's TOS by removing ads without special permission, and kill their API keys.
    - shagie 3y ago
      Wouldn't it be easier for the app to pursue its own monetization and charge for API use? A headless program that does moderation actions (changing flares, approving or deleting posts, updating wiki) uses the same API that a mobile app would use - and ads would only get in the way of those tools. If the app is poorly behaved or you have a very heavy hitting backend service, then you pay more. If you (the app owner) wants to put advertisements in the user's view - that's up to you. If you want to do offer the app advertisement free out of the generosity of your heart, that's up to you. The API calls cost the same no matter how they're made - the API doesn't care where it's called from. Be it polling backend service, moderation tool, or mobile app - it's all billed the same with the exception of it being free for certain exceptional cases. That's much easier to work with for all parties involved.
      - wpietri 3y ago
        I get what you're saying, but that's a bad approach for all concerned. For Reddit Inc, it's bad because they'll under-charge for things where they could capture more money, and over-charge for things that are helpful to their platform but not directly profitable, like moderator tools. It's bad for developers because it forces them to deal with having a revenue model well before they're ready to. A lot of people just like building things, and only worry about revenue once it's successful enough to matter. It's bad for users because all sorts of tools that would be free now have to charge them. Instead of somebody just hacking together a moderation tool suddenly has to find a way to pay for it. The headless case is easy enough; in each content blob you include an "is_ad" field. Tools that are user agents display that content. Tools that aren't are free to ignore it under the TOS.
        shagie 3y ago
- scarface_74 3y ago
  The easiest method is don’t have a free version at all and only people with a paid (ad free) subscription could use third party clients.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    Imagine paying to access a site that can ban you for posting an opinion that a random moderator disagrees with.
    - devnullbrain 3y ago
      That's not how site-wide bans work

wpietri 3y ago

If Reddit just cared about having the ads, they could have a free version of the API that includes the inline ads. Or otherwise work with API users to blend in the ads for user-facing clients. They could even kick back a share of that revenue to client makers. As far as I know they're not doing any of that. To me it looks like the goal is to wall off all the user-generated content in an attempt to extract maximum dollars from it while intentionally excluding third parties.

shagie 3y ago
What guarantee is there that those inline ads would be rendered by the 3rd party client? What incentive is there for the API users to add in ads that reddit serves for the 3rd party client users? Can reddit be guaranteed get a share of the revenue for the IAP of "block all ads?" Is it worth it for reddit to do it when they can't control the price of said IAP ($0.49 for "block all of Reddit's ads")
- pawptart 3y ago
  Right? That's what I've never understood. Putting ads in the API is irrelevant, since the 3rd party clients will just ignore them. The Reddit that the loud minority wants is never, ever coming back. These protests are just a blip -- if you don't like what Reddit has become, your only recourse is to leave.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > What guarantee is there that those inline ads would be rendered by the 3rd party client? Because if it isn't then reddit can simply revoke their access. How can reddit know if the ads are being stripped out or not? Simple - download the app, run it and see. The API license can always force things like: 1. Only for apps, whether mobile, desktop or web (i.e. forget about training your LLM on the data) 2. License revoked if content is modified in any way (i.e. no stripping out ads) It's not that difficult, honestly. I've signed more strict agreements with companies (NDAs, and so forth) to access their system, their data, etc.
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    > Because if it isn't then reddit can simply revoke their access. And then we are right back at the complaints that reddit is killing 3P clients.
- wpietri 3y ago
  Sorry, why do you think this is a hard question? They look around at the big clients, see anybody who has violated the API's TOS by removing ads without special permission, and kill their API keys.
  - shagie 3y ago
    Wouldn't it be easier for the app to pursue its own monetization and charge for API use? A headless program that does moderation actions (changing flares, approving or deleting posts, updating wiki) uses the same API that a mobile app would use - and ads would only get in the way of those tools. If the app is poorly behaved or you have a very heavy hitting backend service, then you pay more. If you (the app owner) wants to put advertisements in the user's view - that's up to you. If you want to do offer the app advertisement free out of the generosity of your heart, that's up to you. The API calls cost the same no matter how they're made - the API doesn't care where it's called from. Be it polling backend service, moderation tool, or mobile app - it's all billed the same with the exception of it being free for certain exceptional cases. That's much easier to work with for all parties involved.
    - wpietri 3y ago
      I get what you're saying, but that's a bad approach for all concerned. For Reddit Inc, it's bad because they'll under-charge for things where they could capture more money, and over-charge for things that are helpful to their platform but not directly profitable, like moderator tools. It's bad for developers because it forces them to deal with having a revenue model well before they're ready to. A lot of people just like building things, and only worry about revenue once it's successful enough to matter. It's bad for users because all sorts of tools that would be free now have to charge them. Instead of somebody just hacking together a moderation tool suddenly has to find a way to pay for it. The headless case is easy enough; in each content blob you include an "is_ad" field. Tools that are user agents display that content. Tools that aren't are free to ignore it under the TOS.
      - shagie 3y ago
scarface_74 3y ago
The easiest method is don’t have a free version at all and only people with a paid (ad free) subscription could use third party clients.
- zirgs 3y ago
  Imagine paying to access a site that can ban you for posting an opinion that a random moderator disagrees with.
  - devnullbrain 3y ago
    That's not how site-wide bans work