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Sorry if I offended by bringing up the AI - I was trying to use it to offer many possible avenues of more specific disagreement, so I could understand their sta

by bbor 3y ago

Sorry if I offended by bringing up the AI - I was trying to use it to offer many possible avenues of more specific disagreement, so I could understand their stance better. Less about convincing or arguing. On the rest of it… I think i asked a bunch of questions last night and am now facing the harsh reality that the answer is “some people see the whole shape of the world and human experience completely differently than I do and always have”. So not too much to discuss lol To illustrate that, consider “ I strongly doubt anyone would be disappointed that they are not “actualizing themselves” if they were fighting every day for food, shelter, etc.”. I find this absolutely insane (no offense). You bring up poor modern people in the end, and I think that’s a great example of my concerns: being poor sucks, not knowing where your next meal come from feels terrible, and watching loved ones die of preventable causes is fucking heartbreaking. The idea that poverty/primitivism would lead to better self-actualization is so, so far from how I see the world that I think debate is impossible Thanks for the detailed response! Appreciate the dialogue, for sure. EDIT: on re-read it appears your point is that if we’re struggling for the lower needs, we won’t miss the higher ones. That’s not my understanding of Maslow, but since his theory isn’t really about happiness at all but motivation, I can’t appeal to the author there. It just seems very counter-intuitive that higher needs would not be missed while struggling to achieve lower ones; for example, does someone without shelter not miss love?

lumb63 3y ago
Of course I’m only speculating on how someone who has lived their entire life primitively might feel - I haven’t done that myself. I’m looking at things from the perspective of if I were born into a tribal, primitive society. As you alluded to in your previous post, things clearly change when you’ve lived a modern life. Having lived a modern life, we know that the diseases primitive societies face are preventable. We know that we don’t need to struggle for food. If we didn’t know that, we’d probably feel differently. For example, a lot of primitive cultures have very different relationships and views of death. I think that “going from modern to primitive life” versus “always living a primitive life” is a huge difference.

by bbor 3y ago

lumb63 3y ago

Of course I’m only speculating on how someone who has lived their entire life primitively might feel - I haven’t done that myself. I’m looking at things from the perspective of if I were born into a tribal, primitive society. As you alluded to in your previous post, things clearly change when you’ve lived a modern life. Having lived a modern life, we know that the diseases primitive societies face are preventable. We know that we don’t need to struggle for food. If we didn’t know that, we’d probably feel differently. For example, a lot of primitive cultures have very different relationships and views of death. I think that “going from modern to primitive life” versus “always living a primitive life” is a huge difference.