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> But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where

> But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive? Drinking water supply also gets contaminated all the time. So I assume you won’t have any issues if I start pouring my experimental medicine into your municipal water supply, right? How else can I get large scale data to test it and develop? Remember, cancer kills millions of people per year! I hope you are not against progress to fight it! > I think you’re just regurgitating the standard anti-Tesla talking points… and avoided the questions on the fact Mercedes hasn’t tested this in actual streets and has just rolled it out and while it’s admitting liability isn’t that just as bad as what Tesla is doing? What makes you think that Mercedes didn’t test on the streets? Just because there were no army of YouTubers, not trained in any way, with no relation to the company, making videos? > Given all the approaches (with a hope of working) are using AI - how do you get the data to train the AI? This isn’t a Tesla problem, this is an AI training problem. Yeah, if you think it’s an AI problem, not how to build and test safety critical systems that’s all I need to know about your understanding of the problem domain.

onethought 3y ago
You are clearly trolling rather than trying to understand different points of view. I know it can be fun to be in the pro or anti Tesla camp and run around responding to anyone pro Tesla with your small set of points. But it didn’t progress anyone’s understanding of things. You don’t learn anything and everyone dismisses your views as zealotry. Why not try to engage with the points? Has Mercedes tested this? What evidence do you have for that? If I’m wrong on the AI training problem, how would you collect and validate data without real world feedback? (Ie as you put it “testing in prod). Do other companies do this right?
- justapassenger 3y ago
  I’m using sarcasm, sure. But do you think it’s unwarranted when I’m against arguments how only person driving the car could be affected by FSD or that self driving is an AI problem? I assume you either don’t argue in good faith, or have understanding of the problem area from following Musk’s and his influencer’s tweets. But I agree with you, it’s not productive. I’ll take my “small set of points” about such an irrelevant things like safety engineering (and no, it’s not a just noun, it’s an engineering discipline) and disengage here. Just to address one thing tho - YouTubers making videos is and Tesla releasing it to more people to recognize deferred revenue is not testing. And you can see from constant regressions that it doesn’t work as testing. And before you throw “well, that’s just how AI works”, maybe you’ll make a connection on how self driving isn’t an AI problem. It’s just one of the many many tools used to solve it.
  - onethought 3y ago
    Note you still didn't answer or provide any evidence of "Safety Engineering" from Mercedes. Just the usual Tesla trolling. AI is the approach that Tesla, Waymo, Nvidia, Cruise, Comma, and even Mercedes are taking. So to ask the question one last time (third time lucky) - How is Mercedes validating the data they use for training without "Testing in Prod" as you criticise Tesla for. Either: They aren't, in which case your whole rant on the lack of "Safety Engineering" at Tesla is moot, because Mercedes is rolling out essentially untested AI systems. OR They are validating their data in real life just like Tesla do, in which case your whole rant on the lack of "Safety Engineering" at Tesla is moot, because Mercedes is just as bad and supposedly have "Safety Engineering" in your opinion. This is why I keep asking, and this is why you keep not answering.

onethought 3y ago

You are clearly trolling rather than trying to understand different points of view. I know it can be fun to be in the pro or anti Tesla camp and run around responding to anyone pro Tesla with your small set of points. But it didn’t progress anyone’s understanding of things. You don’t learn anything and everyone dismisses your views as zealotry. Why not try to engage with the points? Has Mercedes tested this? What evidence do you have for that? If I’m wrong on the AI training problem, how would you collect and validate data without real world feedback? (Ie as you put it “testing in prod). Do other companies do this right?

justapassenger 3y ago
I’m using sarcasm, sure. But do you think it’s unwarranted when I’m against arguments how only person driving the car could be affected by FSD or that self driving is an AI problem? I assume you either don’t argue in good faith, or have understanding of the problem area from following Musk’s and his influencer’s tweets. But I agree with you, it’s not productive. I’ll take my “small set of points” about such an irrelevant things like safety engineering (and no, it’s not a just noun, it’s an engineering discipline) and disengage here. Just to address one thing tho - YouTubers making videos is and Tesla releasing it to more people to recognize deferred revenue is not testing. And you can see from constant regressions that it doesn’t work as testing. And before you throw “well, that’s just how AI works”, maybe you’ll make a connection on how self driving isn’t an AI problem. It’s just one of the many many tools used to solve it.
- onethought 3y ago
  Note you still didn't answer or provide any evidence of "Safety Engineering" from Mercedes. Just the usual Tesla trolling. AI is the approach that Tesla, Waymo, Nvidia, Cruise, Comma, and even Mercedes are taking. So to ask the question one last time (third time lucky) - How is Mercedes validating the data they use for training without "Testing in Prod" as you criticise Tesla for. Either: They aren't, in which case your whole rant on the lack of "Safety Engineering" at Tesla is moot, because Mercedes is rolling out essentially untested AI systems. OR They are validating their data in real life just like Tesla do, in which case your whole rant on the lack of "Safety Engineering" at Tesla is moot, because Mercedes is just as bad and supposedly have "Safety Engineering" in your opinion. This is why I keep asking, and this is why you keep not answering.