5 ms·

I went to school with children of Italian, Portuguese, Turkish and Greek backgrounds (mostly the parent generation migrated) and none of them were distinguishab

by tfourb 3y ago

I went to school with children of Italian, Portuguese, Turkish and Greek backgrounds (mostly the parent generation migrated) and none of them were distinguishable in terms of "broad" culture from those whose grandparents were born in Germany. Not sure what kind of "migrant trends" you are talking about. The most prevalent cultural influence in my school time was probably MTV and the local "Landjugend" and in my sons' kindergarten and primary school its (sadly) Paw Patrol. Yes, some very specific school districts in urban centers are predominantly migrant and there are cultural ramifications to that. But that is a fraction of German schools.

constantcrying 3y ago
>Not sure what kind of "migrant trends" you are talking about I don't know where you live, but here Arabic and Turkish Music (especially "rap" performed by these groups), attitudes and even language (I regularly hear turkish/arabic slang) clearly have a large influence outside of their respective migrant cultures. >I went to school with children of Italian, Portuguese, Turkish and Greek backgrounds (mostly the parent generation migrated) and none of them were distinguishable in terms of "broad" culture from those whose grandparents were born in Germany. I had a simmilar experience in my school. But we also had a lower tier school right next to us where that clearly was not the case. And there Turkish/Arabic influence was very clearly greater than any German one.
- oaiey 3y ago
  Well, there is a bias there. If you would ask the parents of the migrant kids you would get a statement that they lost 80% of their culture. A mixture is to be expected and is a necessity for human and society evolvement.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    This clearly is not "integration". There is a delusional fantasy, by all political sides, going on here that migrants will "integrate", like what actually did happen with sub 1% imkigratnt groups. Why would these groups, which locally easily are a third of the population, if not the majority, want to integrate? German "culture" is literally just doing 8-5 work. Of course they are going to assert their native cultures. >A mixture is to be expected and is a necessity for human and society evolvement. A mixture of what? Speaking German + fundamental Islam + LGBT rights + driving a BMW + putting Gyros into bread. Is that "integration"? Completely laughable to be honest. These migrants group are doing what all otuer groups would do, forming their own parallel society, with their own shops, their own spaces and asserting it in the face of integrationist pressure.
    - tfourb 3y ago
      "Outer groups," "native culture," "fundamental islam + LGBTQ rights," "These migrants," … The 1930s called, they want their xenophobic language back!
      - constantcrying 3y ago
        What kind of nonsense response is that? Why do you think I am literally hitler because I use the most normal words imaginable and repeat what migrants will tell you about their experience. Maybe there is a large cultural gap here, but I grew up in a "worse" part of town with lots of migrants around. Maybe you should try to do the same before calling everyone a nazi because they dare to point out what these people say they want?
      - laserdancepony 3y ago
        And here someone won the Godwin award again. That was fast. Fascinating how your adversary is having a well mannered argument and you derail it to call him a nazi. Takes one to know one, I think.
        tfourb 3y ago
        I said his use of language is reminiscent of the way language was used in the 1930s, I didn't call him a Nazi. For what it's worth, the Nazis certainly don't have a monopoly of using language in this kind of way (creating an "us" vs. "them" narrative), it is quite common with populists all throughout history and certainly not confined exclusively to one particular political spectrum. But every time someone tries to stylize two very complex groups into two simple opposing forces, it should really ring alarm bells.
    - tfourb 3y ago
      You are using language that is designed to (artificially) create an us vs. them scenario. You are creating two groups, "Germans" on the one side, "migrants" on the other. These are rhetorical devices that have been used throughout history, but most prominently during Nazi rule, to create a social climate and justification for discrimination and ultimately violence targeted at minorities. In reality, there is neither something like "German culture," nor something that can be defined as "migrant culture". Migration and cross-influencing of languages and cultures is a fundamental feature of human history and every time someone gets out the tropes that you are using, what they are really saying is "I want society to work the way I prefer" instead of going through the trouble of trying to understand what is happening and participating in working out a solution to actual problems.
lynx23 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Yikes - you can't post like this to HN and we ban accounts that do. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd be grateful. Edit: unfortunately you've been breaking the rules badly on a number of occasions. We have to ban accounts that do that. I don't want to ban you because you've also posted good things, so please use HN in the intended spirit going forward. That means thoughtful, respectful, and above all curious conversation.

by tfourb 3y ago

constantcrying 3y ago

>Not sure what kind of "migrant trends" you are talking about I don't know where you live, but here Arabic and Turkish Music (especially "rap" performed by these groups), attitudes and even language (I regularly hear turkish/arabic slang) clearly have a large influence outside of their respective migrant cultures. >I went to school with children of Italian, Portuguese, Turkish and Greek backgrounds (mostly the parent generation migrated) and none of them were distinguishable in terms of "broad" culture from those whose grandparents were born in Germany. I had a simmilar experience in my school. But we also had a lower tier school right next to us where that clearly was not the case. And there Turkish/Arabic influence was very clearly greater than any German one.

oaiey 3y ago
Well, there is a bias there. If you would ask the parents of the migrant kids you would get a statement that they lost 80% of their culture. A mixture is to be expected and is a necessity for human and society evolvement.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  This clearly is not "integration". There is a delusional fantasy, by all political sides, going on here that migrants will "integrate", like what actually did happen with sub 1% imkigratnt groups. Why would these groups, which locally easily are a third of the population, if not the majority, want to integrate? German "culture" is literally just doing 8-5 work. Of course they are going to assert their native cultures. >A mixture is to be expected and is a necessity for human and society evolvement. A mixture of what? Speaking German + fundamental Islam + LGBT rights + driving a BMW + putting Gyros into bread. Is that "integration"? Completely laughable to be honest. These migrants group are doing what all otuer groups would do, forming their own parallel society, with their own shops, their own spaces and asserting it in the face of integrationist pressure.
  - tfourb 3y ago
    "Outer groups," "native culture," "fundamental islam + LGBTQ rights," "These migrants," … The 1930s called, they want their xenophobic language back!
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      What kind of nonsense response is that? Why do you think I am literally hitler because I use the most normal words imaginable and repeat what migrants will tell you about their experience. Maybe there is a large cultural gap here, but I grew up in a "worse" part of town with lots of migrants around. Maybe you should try to do the same before calling everyone a nazi because they dare to point out what these people say they want?
    - laserdancepony 3y ago
      And here someone won the Godwin award again. That was fast. Fascinating how your adversary is having a well mannered argument and you derail it to call him a nazi. Takes one to know one, I think.
      - tfourb 3y ago
        I said his use of language is reminiscent of the way language was used in the 1930s, I didn't call him a Nazi. For what it's worth, the Nazis certainly don't have a monopoly of using language in this kind of way (creating an "us" vs. "them" narrative), it is quite common with populists all throughout history and certainly not confined exclusively to one particular political spectrum. But every time someone tries to stylize two very complex groups into two simple opposing forces, it should really ring alarm bells.
  - tfourb 3y ago
    You are using language that is designed to (artificially) create an us vs. them scenario. You are creating two groups, "Germans" on the one side, "migrants" on the other. These are rhetorical devices that have been used throughout history, but most prominently during Nazi rule, to create a social climate and justification for discrimination and ultimately violence targeted at minorities. In reality, there is neither something like "German culture," nor something that can be defined as "migrant culture". Migration and cross-influencing of languages and cultures is a fundamental feature of human history and every time someone gets out the tropes that you are using, what they are really saying is "I want society to work the way I prefer" instead of going through the trouble of trying to understand what is happening and participating in working out a solution to actual problems.

lynx23 3y ago

[flagged]

dang 3y ago
Yikes - you can't post like this to HN and we ban accounts that do. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd be grateful. Edit: unfortunately you've been breaking the rules badly on a number of occasions. We have to ban accounts that do that. I don't want to ban you because you've also posted good things, so please use HN in the intended spirit going forward. That means thoughtful, respectful, and above all curious conversation.