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From my experience, this makes sense (at least for the lower classes). I had English classes since my first grade. Considering the results, it was mostly waste

From my experience, this makes sense (at least for the lower classes). I had English classes since my first grade. Considering the results, it was mostly waste of time. None of us had even basic proficiency even after years of attending English classes. Language learning requires frequent classes and a decent amount of exposure (TV doesn't provide it). This is possible with older kids, not the young ones.

jacquesm 3y ago
From my experience, it doesn't. All of my kids are fluent in English, Dutch and at least one more language. And I credit early exposure and the schools spending a lot of time on this from age 6 and up.
- ivoflipse 3y ago
  It helps that in the Netherlands we subtitle rather than dub foreign (and thus most English) speaking content. I was surprised when watching Forest Gump to hear that "Shit happens" is translated to "Scheisse passiert" and my German speaking friends didn't even know the English version. Ironically, I think most German speakers are more familiar with Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice actor, than his own voice while being from Austria. Our music also contains more English music than German, which doesn't seem to be the case in Germany. So in the Netherlands, we're exposed to English a lot more than German, French or Spanish speaking countries. I bet the same applies to the Nordic countries, which also have great English speaking ability
- mrazomor 3y ago
  There's something that the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Switzerland and Sweden do well when it comes to English. Almost all people I met from those countries spoke fluent English with good pronunciation. What do you believe Dutch schools do well when it comes to learning English? How large are the classes? Are there any things outside the school that might play important role in learning English? Could it be just the language compatibility? (not sure how Switzerland would fit)
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I think NL is just too small to be picky about languages. You either are willing to adapt or you'll be in trouble. In Germany you can get away with it.
trilbyglens 3y ago
Seems like Holland manages this just fine? Imo dropping the only language that is common across the continent is a bad idea. When cultures lose intercultural comprehension, they become more isolated, and that's entirely a bad thing. Germany is the defacto leading culture on the continent, and having a population that is able to be integrated in international information streams is critical to it playing that role well. Just look to other countries who speak less English. You don't want to end up like the french do you?
- funklute 3y ago
  > You don't want to end up like the french do you? Exactly what do you mean is the problem with the French? Assuming I've understood you correctly, I think it's worth pointing out that the French very consciously hold onto their linguistic identity. Many people would argue that is a good thing, rather than a bad thing. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think that your claim of "entirely a bad thing" is something that depends a lot on your perspective.
risyachka 3y ago
I bet it heavily depends on teachers and curriculum. I had English classes from first grade and at the end of school I was fluent in written and spoken English. But the curriculum was not even close to what they teach in most schools. It was pretty hardcore. The groups were small (10 students max) and the teachers were relentless and actually cared.

jacquesm 3y ago

From my experience, it doesn't. All of my kids are fluent in English, Dutch and at least one more language. And I credit early exposure and the schools spending a lot of time on this from age 6 and up.

ivoflipse 3y ago
It helps that in the Netherlands we subtitle rather than dub foreign (and thus most English) speaking content. I was surprised when watching Forest Gump to hear that "Shit happens" is translated to "Scheisse passiert" and my German speaking friends didn't even know the English version. Ironically, I think most German speakers are more familiar with Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice actor, than his own voice while being from Austria. Our music also contains more English music than German, which doesn't seem to be the case in Germany. So in the Netherlands, we're exposed to English a lot more than German, French or Spanish speaking countries. I bet the same applies to the Nordic countries, which also have great English speaking ability
mrazomor 3y ago
There's something that the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Switzerland and Sweden do well when it comes to English. Almost all people I met from those countries spoke fluent English with good pronunciation. What do you believe Dutch schools do well when it comes to learning English? How large are the classes? Are there any things outside the school that might play important role in learning English? Could it be just the language compatibility? (not sure how Switzerland would fit)
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I think NL is just too small to be picky about languages. You either are willing to adapt or you'll be in trouble. In Germany you can get away with it.

trilbyglens 3y ago

Seems like Holland manages this just fine? Imo dropping the only language that is common across the continent is a bad idea. When cultures lose intercultural comprehension, they become more isolated, and that's entirely a bad thing. Germany is the defacto leading culture on the continent, and having a population that is able to be integrated in international information streams is critical to it playing that role well. Just look to other countries who speak less English. You don't want to end up like the french do you?

funklute 3y ago
> You don't want to end up like the french do you? Exactly what do you mean is the problem with the French? Assuming I've understood you correctly, I think it's worth pointing out that the French very consciously hold onto their linguistic identity. Many people would argue that is a good thing, rather than a bad thing. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think that your claim of "entirely a bad thing" is something that depends a lot on your perspective.

risyachka 3y ago

I bet it heavily depends on teachers and curriculum. I had English classes from first grade and at the end of school I was fluent in written and spoken English. But the curriculum was not even close to what they teach in most schools. It was pretty hardcore. The groups were small (10 students max) and the teachers were relentless and actually cared.