4 ms·

It say in schools “where” 70 to 90 percent have immigrant background. I don’t think it means that portion of all students everywhere on average have immigration

It say in schools “where” 70 to 90 percent have immigrant background. I don’t think it means that portion of all students everywhere on average have immigration backgrounds.

manuel_w 3y ago
There doesn't seem to be accurate data available, but surveys show it's around 39%. [1] I wouldn't be surprised if the German government doesn't collect reliable data on purpose. Original text: > Wie viele Schüler in Deutschland einen "Migrationshintergrund" haben, ist nicht ohne Weiteres zu beantworten. Denn die Datenlage ist lückenhaft und die Ergebnisse sind häufig nicht miteinander vergleichbar. > Laut Mikrozensus hatte 2021 über ein Drittel (rund 39 Prozent) der Schüler*innen an allgemeinbildenden und beruflichen Schulen in Deutschland einen Migrationshintergrund. Die Daten des Mikrozensus basieren jedoch nicht auf der amtlichen Schulstatistik, sondern auf einer repräsentativen Befragung von rund 810.000 Personen. Die Ergebnisse werden hochgerechnet. English translation through Google: > How many schoolchildren in Germany have a "migrant background" cannot be answered without further ado. The data situation is incomplete and the results are often not comparable with one another. > According to the 2021 microcensus, more than a third (around 39 percent) of students at general and vocational schools in Germany had a migration background. However, the microcensus data is not based on the official school statistics, but on a representative survey of around 810,000 people. The results are extrapolated. [1] https://mediendienst-integration.de/integration/schule.html https://mediendienst-integration.de/integration/schule.html
- Someone 3y ago
  That’s for a fairly broad definition of “migration background”. Everyone who wasn’t born a German citizen or has at least one parent who wasn’t a German citizen at their birth qualifies (“Wer die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit nicht durch Geburt besitzt oder mindestens einen Elternteil hat, bei dem das der Fall ist, hat einen "Migrationshintergrund".”) For example, Angela Merkel’s mother was born in Danzig in 1928. That wasn’t part of Germany at the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig), so chances are she wasn’t born with German citizenship. If so, Angela Merkel has a migration background according to that definition. For primary school kids, I would guess many of them are children of people who have lived and worked in Germany for decades.
- tfourb 3y ago
  "migrant background" in German political discourse is mostly defined as "at least one parent was not born with German citizenship". That is incredibly broad and covers both children of Syrian refugees who arrived last year, as well as children of a English-German couple or the children of a third-generation Turkish immigrant who has retained his Turkish citizenship but has lived in Germany his whole life. For the sake of this debate (how many children have adequate knowledge of the German language) it is essentially meaningless.
- geraneum 3y ago
  The problem is having an immigration background in Germany doesn’t not mean the students don’t speak German [1]. Even if their parents came from Turkey or Russia 50 years ago, they are classified as such. It also doesn’t explain the deficiencies in math. While the issue is real, I think either Meidinger or the journalist is pulling a fast one here. [1] Linked in the same article: https://www.dw.com/en/german-is-the-most-spoken-language-in-immigrant-households/a-50374819 https://www.dw.com/en/german-is-the-most-spoken-language-in-...?
oaiey 3y ago
Every school class in Germany has now at least 1-2 kids with migration background. Syrian, Ukraine, etc. So overall every class is affected (because the teacher needs to allocate more focus on them). Is that bad? Maybe, but what do you expect if you have migration and no increase in teacher capacity. The way to solve it is get more teacher capacity.
- geraneum 3y ago
  While what you mention (capacity) is an absolutely important issue, I am skeptical of the effect that those 1-2 kids could have had on the students' performance on a national level so suddenly. Immigration is not a new phenomenon here. I guess there could be more to it. Like, for example, Covid lockdowns, which were not implemented the same way (severity) for schools among European nations. That could also have had a big effect on students' performance, and even more on the performance of those 1-2 immigrant kids. What I am saying is the excuse that the authorities are giving is not convincing me TBH and the wording they choose makes me feel even more skeptical. My 2 cents.

It say in schools “where” 70 to 90 percent have immigrant background. I don’t think it means that portion of all students everywhere on average have immigration backgrounds.

manuel_w 3y ago

There doesn't seem to be accurate data available, but surveys show it's around 39%. [1] I wouldn't be surprised if the German government doesn't collect reliable data on purpose. Original text: > Wie viele Schüler in Deutschland einen "Migrationshintergrund" haben, ist nicht ohne Weiteres zu beantworten. Denn die Datenlage ist lückenhaft und die Ergebnisse sind häufig nicht miteinander vergleichbar. > Laut Mikrozensus hatte 2021 über ein Drittel (rund 39 Prozent) der Schüler*innen an allgemeinbildenden und beruflichen Schulen in Deutschland einen Migrationshintergrund. Die Daten des Mikrozensus basieren jedoch nicht auf der amtlichen Schulstatistik, sondern auf einer repräsentativen Befragung von rund 810.000 Personen. Die Ergebnisse werden hochgerechnet. English translation through Google: > How many schoolchildren in Germany have a "migrant background" cannot be answered without further ado. The data situation is incomplete and the results are often not comparable with one another. > According to the 2021 microcensus, more than a third (around 39 percent) of students at general and vocational schools in Germany had a migration background. However, the microcensus data is not based on the official school statistics, but on a representative survey of around 810,000 people. The results are extrapolated. [1] https://mediendienst-integration.de/integration/schule.html https://mediendienst-integration.de/integration/schule.html

Someone 3y ago
That’s for a fairly broad definition of “migration background”. Everyone who wasn’t born a German citizen or has at least one parent who wasn’t a German citizen at their birth qualifies (“Wer die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit nicht durch Geburt besitzt oder mindestens einen Elternteil hat, bei dem das der Fall ist, hat einen "Migrationshintergrund".”) For example, Angela Merkel’s mother was born in Danzig in 1928. That wasn’t part of Germany at the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig), so chances are she wasn’t born with German citizenship. If so, Angela Merkel has a migration background according to that definition. For primary school kids, I would guess many of them are children of people who have lived and worked in Germany for decades.
tfourb 3y ago
"migrant background" in German political discourse is mostly defined as "at least one parent was not born with German citizenship". That is incredibly broad and covers both children of Syrian refugees who arrived last year, as well as children of a English-German couple or the children of a third-generation Turkish immigrant who has retained his Turkish citizenship but has lived in Germany his whole life. For the sake of this debate (how many children have adequate knowledge of the German language) it is essentially meaningless.
geraneum 3y ago
The problem is having an immigration background in Germany doesn’t not mean the students don’t speak German [1]. Even if their parents came from Turkey or Russia 50 years ago, they are classified as such. It also doesn’t explain the deficiencies in math. While the issue is real, I think either Meidinger or the journalist is pulling a fast one here. [1] Linked in the same article: https://www.dw.com/en/german-is-the-most-spoken-language-in-immigrant-households/a-50374819 https://www.dw.com/en/german-is-the-most-spoken-language-in-...?

oaiey 3y ago

Every school class in Germany has now at least 1-2 kids with migration background. Syrian, Ukraine, etc. So overall every class is affected (because the teacher needs to allocate more focus on them). Is that bad? Maybe, but what do you expect if you have migration and no increase in teacher capacity. The way to solve it is get more teacher capacity.

geraneum 3y ago
While what you mention (capacity) is an absolutely important issue, I am skeptical of the effect that those 1-2 kids could have had on the students' performance on a national level so suddenly. Immigration is not a new phenomenon here. I guess there could be more to it. Like, for example, Covid lockdowns, which were not implemented the same way (severity) for schools among European nations. That could also have had a big effect on students' performance, and even more on the performance of those 1-2 immigrant kids. What I am saying is the excuse that the authorities are giving is not convincing me TBH and the wording they choose makes me feel even more skeptical. My 2 cents.