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MTA costs make the Boston Big Dig look like a bargain, even at $22 billion. I'm convinced, if they contract this out to first-tier construction firms from over

by pcurve 3y ago

MTA costs make the Boston Big Dig look like a bargain, even at $22 billion. I'm convinced, if they contract this out to first-tier construction firms from oversea that specialize in underground infrastructure (e.g. Europe, Japan, Korea), they can get the job done at 1/3rd the cost.

kuschku 3y ago
Even in Düsseldorf, building an entire new subway tunnel for several lines through downtown was about a billion euros. Hamburg's new Hafencity lime was in a similar price range, and the new U5 will be as well. New York for some reason is spending 10× that.
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago
  That's because NY is one of the most corrupt places on earth. 9/10 goes to pockets of politicians, unions, special interest groups, and their progressive pals.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  NY is spending $7B to on a Phase 2, to expand a long delayed subway line by 1.5 miles, and half the tunnel is pre-existing from abandoned project in 1970s. The original Phase 1 was only about 1.5 miles and took something around 20 years on top of the existing half built stuff from the 1970s There is a Phase 3 to expand the line a further 4 miles with all new tunnels, and there is a rarely talked about Phase 4 to go a final 2 miles again in all new tunnel. I point to this project in terms of an example of those with a negative agenda "knock stuff down" without having a matching, if not pre-requisite "build better stuff" plan in place. The original 2nd Ave line was planned in the 1920s, they knocked down elevated train lines in the 1940s in anticipation, but didn't start the subway project til 1970s, which opened for service in 2017. By the time Phase 4 finishes in 2140 or so, we may have finally matched the transit removed in 1940s. So any modern era "just knock down __" without first building transit / alternates / etc risks putting us in a net transportation deficit for a lifetime or three.
midoridensha 3y ago
>I'm convinced, if they contract this out to first-tier construction firms from oversea that specialize in underground infrastructure (e.g. Europe, Japan, Korea), they can get the job done at 1/3rd the cost. No, they can't, unless the US somehow temporarily makes NYC Japanese territory for the duration of the project. Any foreign firm would still be stuck with the same laws, and the same politicians and other corrupt people, that are in position today and prevent efforts at economical construction.

by pcurve 3y ago

kuschku 3y ago

Even in Düsseldorf, building an entire new subway tunnel for several lines through downtown was about a billion euros. Hamburg's new Hafencity lime was in a similar price range, and the new U5 will be as well. New York for some reason is spending 10× that.

PM_me_your_math 3y ago
That's because NY is one of the most corrupt places on earth. 9/10 goes to pockets of politicians, unions, special interest groups, and their progressive pals.
steveBK123 3y ago
NY is spending $7B to on a Phase 2, to expand a long delayed subway line by 1.5 miles, and half the tunnel is pre-existing from abandoned project in 1970s. The original Phase 1 was only about 1.5 miles and took something around 20 years on top of the existing half built stuff from the 1970s There is a Phase 3 to expand the line a further 4 miles with all new tunnels, and there is a rarely talked about Phase 4 to go a final 2 miles again in all new tunnel. I point to this project in terms of an example of those with a negative agenda "knock stuff down" without having a matching, if not pre-requisite "build better stuff" plan in place. The original 2nd Ave line was planned in the 1920s, they knocked down elevated train lines in the 1940s in anticipation, but didn't start the subway project til 1970s, which opened for service in 2017. By the time Phase 4 finishes in 2140 or so, we may have finally matched the transit removed in 1940s. So any modern era "just knock down __" without first building transit / alternates / etc risks putting us in a net transportation deficit for a lifetime or three.

midoridensha 3y ago

>I'm convinced, if they contract this out to first-tier construction firms from oversea that specialize in underground infrastructure (e.g. Europe, Japan, Korea), they can get the job done at 1/3rd the cost. No, they can't, unless the US somehow temporarily makes NYC Japanese territory for the duration of the project. Any foreign firm would still be stuck with the same laws, and the same politicians and other corrupt people, that are in position today and prevent efforts at economical construction.