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I agree with your points, but I don’t think they undermine congestion pricing. Even if you take all the congestion tolls and, like, toss them in the Hudson Rive

I agree with your points, but I don’t think they undermine congestion pricing. Even if you take all the congestion tolls and, like, toss them in the Hudson River, the program is still worthwhile. Just getting people to pay to drive into Manhattan is good in-and-of-itself.

steveBK123 3y ago
I'm not convinced the congestion IN the city is caused by people coming in from OUT of the city. The density of for hire vehicles in the ride hailing era is tremendous. Further, given how expensive tolls already are to get into the city, whats another $20 for many people? A lot of reactions I've heard from people have been either "great it will keep those bridge & tunnel people out" or "great, now I can pay the toll and have less traffic". Neither of these seem like the congestion pricing is going to work as intended. It probably needs to be 3x the price, and have onerous per-ride charges for ride hail users. I think we can also expect a lot of arbitrage of people congesting up the area just outside the zone to hop onto transit there, which would be fine if we planned to actually build any or expand service to accommodate! Great if you live in SoHo, bad if you live in Harlem.
winternett 3y ago
The last time I drove into downtown Manhattan, just inches form the bridge, I was immediately pulled over by NYPD and given an excessive $150 ticket for the window tints on my car. I demonstrated to the officer that Range Rover made them that way from the factory *limo tint" and that it was legal in my home state, but they had shown that they apparently have always had the inclination to pull people over for bogus minor things in cities like it as an entry tax anyway as the "officer" said "He could drag me and my entire family in the car down to the precinct if he wanted to"... This way they probably don't need to pay police salaries and they just automate the unexpected tax probably. States are the new mafia... Phony "protection fees" and miscellaneous taxes are now more real than before, maybe because the old guard has now transitioned into NY GoV/council/desk jobs?
- steveBK123 3y ago
  So that's pretty wild because within the city, they are epically indifferent to enforcement. There's been a recent epidemic of defaced / quasi legal out of state registered / fake or illegally purchased paper temp tags so people could avoid tolls and tickets.. largely unenforced by cops as they are often the perpetrators.. https://www.streetsblogprojects.org/ghost-tags-part-1-the-dealers https://www.streetsblogprojects.org/ghost-tags-part-1-the-de...
- DeRock 3y ago
  I for one am glad they are enforcing the law. Highly tinted windows obstruct the important communication of being able to make eye contact with the driver. It’s important for other drivers, cyclists and pedestrians. I’m not sure why your home states laws matter when you were driving in NY?
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    I found this about US car window tinting rules: https://windowtintlaws.us/crossing-state-lines-with-tinted-windows/ https://windowtintlaws.us/crossing-state-lines-with-tinted-w... CAN YOU GET PULLED OVER FOR WINDOW TINT IN ANOTHER STATE? The short answer is yes, you can be pulled over by state vehicles or law enforcement for window tint violations that go against state tint laws.
  - winternett 3y ago
    Uh... ? "I demonstrated to the officer that Range Rover made them that way from the factory" Am I supposed to break the windows out before going to NYC?
    - grepfru_it 3y ago
      Range Rover front windows are not tinted from the factory. If your range has tinted front windows, its aftermarket and its a film, not part of the glass. There's so much to the story that OP left out (was the cop eyeballing or did they use the actual tint level detector, why did the cop threaten to take his entire family to the precinct). Its not worth your time to speculate. Don't drive your car with aftermarket tint into NYC, very simple.

steveBK123 3y ago

I'm not convinced the congestion IN the city is caused by people coming in from OUT of the city. The density of for hire vehicles in the ride hailing era is tremendous. Further, given how expensive tolls already are to get into the city, whats another $20 for many people? A lot of reactions I've heard from people have been either "great it will keep those bridge & tunnel people out" or "great, now I can pay the toll and have less traffic". Neither of these seem like the congestion pricing is going to work as intended. It probably needs to be 3x the price, and have onerous per-ride charges for ride hail users. I think we can also expect a lot of arbitrage of people congesting up the area just outside the zone to hop onto transit there, which would be fine if we planned to actually build any or expand service to accommodate! Great if you live in SoHo, bad if you live in Harlem.

winternett 3y ago

The last time I drove into downtown Manhattan, just inches form the bridge, I was immediately pulled over by NYPD and given an excessive $150 ticket for the window tints on my car. I demonstrated to the officer that Range Rover made them that way from the factory *limo tint" and that it was legal in my home state, but they had shown that they apparently have always had the inclination to pull people over for bogus minor things in cities like it as an entry tax anyway as the "officer" said "He could drag me and my entire family in the car down to the precinct if he wanted to"... This way they probably don't need to pay police salaries and they just automate the unexpected tax probably. States are the new mafia... Phony "protection fees" and miscellaneous taxes are now more real than before, maybe because the old guard has now transitioned into NY GoV/council/desk jobs?

steveBK123 3y ago
So that's pretty wild because within the city, they are epically indifferent to enforcement. There's been a recent epidemic of defaced / quasi legal out of state registered / fake or illegally purchased paper temp tags so people could avoid tolls and tickets.. largely unenforced by cops as they are often the perpetrators.. https://www.streetsblogprojects.org/ghost-tags-part-1-the-dealers https://www.streetsblogprojects.org/ghost-tags-part-1-the-de...
DeRock 3y ago
I for one am glad they are enforcing the law. Highly tinted windows obstruct the important communication of being able to make eye contact with the driver. It’s important for other drivers, cyclists and pedestrians. I’m not sure why your home states laws matter when you were driving in NY?
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  I found this about US car window tinting rules: https://windowtintlaws.us/crossing-state-lines-with-tinted-windows/ https://windowtintlaws.us/crossing-state-lines-with-tinted-w... CAN YOU GET PULLED OVER FOR WINDOW TINT IN ANOTHER STATE? The short answer is yes, you can be pulled over by state vehicles or law enforcement for window tint violations that go against state tint laws.
- winternett 3y ago
  Uh... ? "I demonstrated to the officer that Range Rover made them that way from the factory" Am I supposed to break the windows out before going to NYC?
  - grepfru_it 3y ago
    Range Rover front windows are not tinted from the factory. If your range has tinted front windows, its aftermarket and its a film, not part of the glass. There's so much to the story that OP left out (was the cop eyeballing or did they use the actual tint level detector, why did the cop threaten to take his entire family to the precinct). Its not worth your time to speculate. Don't drive your car with aftermarket tint into NYC, very simple.