7 ms·

I think you’re vastly overestimating how many people commute into lower manhattan via car.

Spooky23 3y ago
If nobody is driving, why is it congested? New York City is the hub of a region that represents like a quarter of the US population. Like many other regions, you start cutting off the hub and the central business district dies. Commuting is one aspect. Tourism. Business meetings. Medical care. I live in Queens. Getting a family member to MSK for treatment or getting a meeting in the city via public transit is a 4 hour odyssey. End of the day, folks are gonna say “fuck it” and move to Jersey.
- nimbleplum40 3y ago
  I’m not saying “no one is driving.” Clearly they are or there wouldn’t be such horrible gridlock in lower Manhattan. I’m just very skeptical of the claim that congestion pricing in one of the densest urban environments in the world will “kill the city.” I work in lower manhattan (in a high-income field). I don’t know of a single coworker that drives into work. Most of my friends also work in lower Manhattan. None of them drive to work. Many other cities have implemented congestion pricing without killing their economies. If businesses really do require employees to drive into lower Manhattan instead of taking transit, for most profitable businesses it will not be an issue to cover the additional cost. I feel for you in Queens. I think we should absolutely expand public transit access. But that takes money. Congestion pricing provides (at least some of) that money.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    So you never use cabs or Uber? My point is, which is definitely not being expressed well by me is that that are millions of exceptions and cost/convenience escalations that are going to impact lots of people and increase the friction and hassle of the place.
    - nimbleplum40 3y ago
      > So you never use cabs or Uber? Rarely. Less than once a month. I get what you’re saying, but there’s lots of friction/hassle associated with all of the cars too. Walk or bike around lower Manhattan on a weekend morning before all of the cars roll in. It’s so pleasant! No honking, no risk of getting run over at every intersection, etc. Biking especially is way better. And for those that do have to drive it’s way better and quicker for them too! Every time someone drives into lower Manhattan they make life slightly worse for the hundreds of thousands of people that live or visit the area. I don’t want to ban cars, but I think it’s totally fine to discourage driving there.
- post-it 3y ago
  Tourists certainly don't drive in Manhattan. They don't want to get stuck.
  - LeanderK 3y ago
    Isn't it easier for tourists to just take public transit instead of renting a car? You probably won't find parking next to the empire state building...
    - post-it 3y ago
      Much easier. I've only visited NYC twice, and both times I took transit into Manhattan. The first time, on my way out of NYC, I accidentally drove over a bridge into Manhattan and it was very stressful.
- rafram 3y ago
  > I live in Queens. Getting a family member to MSK for treatment or getting a meeting in the city via public transit is a 4 hour odyssey. I feel like I’m going insane reading this! There is nowhere in Queens that’s more than two hours from midtown Manhattan by public transit, and pretty much everywhere besides Far Rockaway is under an hour. Do you commute by car into Manhattan every single time? Have you ever actually tried public transit? If you think it’s a “4 hour odyssey,” you’re in for a very pleasant surprise.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    2 + 2 = 4. Try taking a bus to a train then walking 6-10 blocks with a patient requiring the services of MSK. It’s difficult. Off-peak, it takes about 20-40 minutes via car. Commuting to the city for the daily grind is totally different. That’s what everyone thinks about - if you don’t have a conventional schedule or have a need that isn’t daily commute, your needs may be different. There are millions of trips every week like that.

If nobody is driving, why is it congested? New York City is the hub of a region that represents like a quarter of the US population. Like many other regions, you start cutting off the hub and the central business district dies. Commuting is one aspect. Tourism. Business meetings. Medical care. I live in Queens. Getting a family member to MSK for treatment or getting a meeting in the city via public transit is a 4 hour odyssey. End of the day, folks are gonna say “fuck it” and move to Jersey.

nimbleplum40 3y ago
I’m not saying “no one is driving.” Clearly they are or there wouldn’t be such horrible gridlock in lower Manhattan. I’m just very skeptical of the claim that congestion pricing in one of the densest urban environments in the world will “kill the city.” I work in lower manhattan (in a high-income field). I don’t know of a single coworker that drives into work. Most of my friends also work in lower Manhattan. None of them drive to work. Many other cities have implemented congestion pricing without killing their economies. If businesses really do require employees to drive into lower Manhattan instead of taking transit, for most profitable businesses it will not be an issue to cover the additional cost. I feel for you in Queens. I think we should absolutely expand public transit access. But that takes money. Congestion pricing provides (at least some of) that money.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  So you never use cabs or Uber? My point is, which is definitely not being expressed well by me is that that are millions of exceptions and cost/convenience escalations that are going to impact lots of people and increase the friction and hassle of the place.
  - nimbleplum40 3y ago
    > So you never use cabs or Uber? Rarely. Less than once a month. I get what you’re saying, but there’s lots of friction/hassle associated with all of the cars too. Walk or bike around lower Manhattan on a weekend morning before all of the cars roll in. It’s so pleasant! No honking, no risk of getting run over at every intersection, etc. Biking especially is way better. And for those that do have to drive it’s way better and quicker for them too! Every time someone drives into lower Manhattan they make life slightly worse for the hundreds of thousands of people that live or visit the area. I don’t want to ban cars, but I think it’s totally fine to discourage driving there.
post-it 3y ago
Tourists certainly don't drive in Manhattan. They don't want to get stuck.
- LeanderK 3y ago
  Isn't it easier for tourists to just take public transit instead of renting a car? You probably won't find parking next to the empire state building...
  - post-it 3y ago
    Much easier. I've only visited NYC twice, and both times I took transit into Manhattan. The first time, on my way out of NYC, I accidentally drove over a bridge into Manhattan and it was very stressful.
rafram 3y ago
> I live in Queens. Getting a family member to MSK for treatment or getting a meeting in the city via public transit is a 4 hour odyssey. I feel like I’m going insane reading this! There is nowhere in Queens that’s more than two hours from midtown Manhattan by public transit, and pretty much everywhere besides Far Rockaway is under an hour. Do you commute by car into Manhattan every single time? Have you ever actually tried public transit? If you think it’s a “4 hour odyssey,” you’re in for a very pleasant surprise.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  2 + 2 = 4. Try taking a bus to a train then walking 6-10 blocks with a patient requiring the services of MSK. It’s difficult. Off-peak, it takes about 20-40 minutes via car. Commuting to the city for the daily grind is totally different. That’s what everyone thinks about - if you don’t have a conventional schedule or have a need that isn’t daily commute, your needs may be different. There are millions of trips every week like that.