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>We basically need a modern era Robert Moses to consolidate NYC DOT/MTA/Port Authority and whatever other agencies and bring us into the modern era. Idk about

>We basically need a modern era Robert Moses to consolidate NYC DOT/MTA/Port Authority and whatever other agencies and bring us into the modern era. Idk about that, maybe a less racist one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Broker https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Broker https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-the-man-who-ruined-99056594/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

steveBK123 3y ago
Yeah, he was a terrible guy and all. But stuff got built. The current inability to build anything is almost a direct result. They delegated decision making to an alphabet soup of agencies at different levels of jurisdiction so it's impossible to get anything done. Because there are so many agencies, you can't for example easily put in a busway because you need NYC DOT, MTA, NYS DOT, city council and mayor to all be on board. Too many people have veto, so nothing gets done. Living in NYC for long, it quickly becomes apparently the vast majority of our built infrastructure was built from 1930-1960 and has frozen in time since.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Another great example is the fact that the BQE cantilever is probably going to collapse before anyone can agree on how to replace it and do so. So far we have reduced a lane to minimize wear & tear, reduced max tonnage for trucks going over it, and are installing advanced automated ticketing to ticket big trucks attempting to go over it. That's well and good, but salt water corrosion and bureaucratic inertia are going to get some people killed at this rate. And let's not pretend it can simply be done away with. Where do we expect all the goods & services flowing in/out of the city via truck to go otherwise.. local roads through city streets.. how is this not a significantly worse outcome? Right now we have a lot of vetos with different agendas - anti-car degrowrethers, NIMBY rich BK Heights owners praying on their lottery ticket if their park expands & view improves, and bureaucrats happy to not have to spend $BBillions to replace the thing. Sometimes living in NYC feels like the opposite of an headline I once saw re: Japan & Italy, where their strategy was described as "Beautiful decline"... for NYC its Ugly Decline. "I don't own a car" is often a mantra of folks who think we can simply do away with infra like the BQE for example. People live frictionless lives in their apps, clicking buttons and goods just magically appear at their doorstep. The gritty truth of how those goods get there is another story. On another note, we apparently are incapable of putting trash in bins, for many reasons. One of which is that the DSNY unions would need to be negotiated with. So for our great push to reduce the rat infestation in the city, we've done the dumbest, least effective, most costliest stuff instead. Rather than mandating containerized garbage or moving up trash collection times to be overnight, what did the city do? Mandate buildings put out trash after 8pm instead of 6pm. Mind you it's not picked up until 6am. So the rats have a 10 hour feast instead of a 12 hour feast, how does this make a difference? And what is the cost? Every single building in the city now needs staff schedules shifted or expanded such that their super/porter/maintenance guy is around after 8pm to take out trash. For the city, it's "free", they don't have to budget anything. But for residents, its yet another cost of living with really no benefit.
  - MrMan 3y ago
    [dead]
  - master_crab 3y ago
    The city’s density makes it impossible for everyone to own a car. So no, the default step shouldn’t be “let’s ensure all the Moses era car infrastructure is maintained.” Moses’s big mistake was not taking into account the idea that a majority of residents might own a car. Want a good example of Moses’s lack of foresight. Look at photos from the 40’s. You know why they look so different? It’s not the people or the buildings. It’s that not every inch of the curb in the 40’s was dedicated to parallel parking (and fully used) like it is today. Source: a guy who lives in BK and sits on the community board of one of the districts that the BQE runs through.
    - steveBK123 3y ago
      The city should abolish or extremely tax all on street parking. Then you could have sensible loading zones for deliveries and garbage containerizing. That said… given how many trucks bring goods into the city, I don’t see how abolishing the BQE is remotely tenable.
      - master_crab 3y ago
        Asking for truck-only transit routes does not necessitate a 6-lane BQE. But that’s a good first step. Lot’s of other Moses era boondoggles also need to be re-imagined
        steveBK123 3y ago
        The problem is no one is proposing tenable truck infrastructure when proposing "knock it down". We have dangerous enough roads all over the city, especially Brooklyn & Queens. Look at the tragedy recently in south Brooklyn. Keeping trucks/trade vans/people transiting the borough on a highway and off surface streets is beneficial. There's lot of infrastructure & services I don't directly use that I don't demand be torn down. I am also aware that I indirectly use lots of infrastructure when I order goods online, buy groceries at the store, have a plumber service my sink, buy furniture, etc. No one alive in the city today can say the BQE was suddenly foisted upon them. I live right next to a bridge in the city, I'd have a better view, quieter life, and higher property value if they tore down the bridge. I work remotely so I don't even use it. I don't believe I have the right to tear it down though.
- mwbajor 3y ago
  The hate for Robert Moses by alot of NYC transplants is similar to the hate alot of "IFLS" type people have for Thomas Edison; its misplaced and overplayed. You're right, I can't really think of anything important built in NYC after ~1955 yet we have a multitude of agencies that are supposed to fix things. The new congestion fees will not be used to build anything useful, perhaps another almost meaningless pedestrian walkway that will somehow cost $10billion to make.
bradleyjg 3y ago
[flagged]
- nemo44x 3y ago
  [flagged]

steveBK123 3y ago

Yeah, he was a terrible guy and all. But stuff got built. The current inability to build anything is almost a direct result. They delegated decision making to an alphabet soup of agencies at different levels of jurisdiction so it's impossible to get anything done. Because there are so many agencies, you can't for example easily put in a busway because you need NYC DOT, MTA, NYS DOT, city council and mayor to all be on board. Too many people have veto, so nothing gets done. Living in NYC for long, it quickly becomes apparently the vast majority of our built infrastructure was built from 1930-1960 and has frozen in time since.

steveBK123 3y ago
Another great example is the fact that the BQE cantilever is probably going to collapse before anyone can agree on how to replace it and do so. So far we have reduced a lane to minimize wear & tear, reduced max tonnage for trucks going over it, and are installing advanced automated ticketing to ticket big trucks attempting to go over it. That's well and good, but salt water corrosion and bureaucratic inertia are going to get some people killed at this rate. And let's not pretend it can simply be done away with. Where do we expect all the goods & services flowing in/out of the city via truck to go otherwise.. local roads through city streets.. how is this not a significantly worse outcome? Right now we have a lot of vetos with different agendas - anti-car degrowrethers, NIMBY rich BK Heights owners praying on their lottery ticket if their park expands & view improves, and bureaucrats happy to not have to spend $BBillions to replace the thing. Sometimes living in NYC feels like the opposite of an headline I once saw re: Japan & Italy, where their strategy was described as "Beautiful decline"... for NYC its Ugly Decline. "I don't own a car" is often a mantra of folks who think we can simply do away with infra like the BQE for example. People live frictionless lives in their apps, clicking buttons and goods just magically appear at their doorstep. The gritty truth of how those goods get there is another story. On another note, we apparently are incapable of putting trash in bins, for many reasons. One of which is that the DSNY unions would need to be negotiated with. So for our great push to reduce the rat infestation in the city, we've done the dumbest, least effective, most costliest stuff instead. Rather than mandating containerized garbage or moving up trash collection times to be overnight, what did the city do? Mandate buildings put out trash after 8pm instead of 6pm. Mind you it's not picked up until 6am. So the rats have a 10 hour feast instead of a 12 hour feast, how does this make a difference? And what is the cost? Every single building in the city now needs staff schedules shifted or expanded such that their super/porter/maintenance guy is around after 8pm to take out trash. For the city, it's "free", they don't have to budget anything. But for residents, its yet another cost of living with really no benefit.
- MrMan 3y ago
  [dead]
- master_crab 3y ago
  The city’s density makes it impossible for everyone to own a car. So no, the default step shouldn’t be “let’s ensure all the Moses era car infrastructure is maintained.” Moses’s big mistake was not taking into account the idea that a majority of residents might own a car. Want a good example of Moses’s lack of foresight. Look at photos from the 40’s. You know why they look so different? It’s not the people or the buildings. It’s that not every inch of the curb in the 40’s was dedicated to parallel parking (and fully used) like it is today. Source: a guy who lives in BK and sits on the community board of one of the districts that the BQE runs through.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    The city should abolish or extremely tax all on street parking. Then you could have sensible loading zones for deliveries and garbage containerizing. That said… given how many trucks bring goods into the city, I don’t see how abolishing the BQE is remotely tenable.
    - master_crab 3y ago
      Asking for truck-only transit routes does not necessitate a 6-lane BQE. But that’s a good first step. Lot’s of other Moses era boondoggles also need to be re-imagined
      - steveBK123 3y ago
        The problem is no one is proposing tenable truck infrastructure when proposing "knock it down". We have dangerous enough roads all over the city, especially Brooklyn & Queens. Look at the tragedy recently in south Brooklyn. Keeping trucks/trade vans/people transiting the borough on a highway and off surface streets is beneficial. There's lot of infrastructure & services I don't directly use that I don't demand be torn down. I am also aware that I indirectly use lots of infrastructure when I order goods online, buy groceries at the store, have a plumber service my sink, buy furniture, etc. No one alive in the city today can say the BQE was suddenly foisted upon them. I live right next to a bridge in the city, I'd have a better view, quieter life, and higher property value if they tore down the bridge. I work remotely so I don't even use it. I don't believe I have the right to tear it down though.
mwbajor 3y ago
The hate for Robert Moses by alot of NYC transplants is similar to the hate alot of "IFLS" type people have for Thomas Edison; its misplaced and overplayed. You're right, I can't really think of anything important built in NYC after ~1955 yet we have a multitude of agencies that are supposed to fix things. The new congestion fees will not be used to build anything useful, perhaps another almost meaningless pedestrian walkway that will somehow cost $10billion to make.

bradleyjg 3y ago

[flagged]

nemo44x 3y ago
[flagged]