7 ms·

Clickbait title to say the least ! While Tesla did amazing things for EVs adoption, and self driving (even if one may say the main contribution is hyping it) i

Clickbait title to say the least ! While Tesla did amazing things for EVs adoption, and self driving (even if one may say the main contribution is hyping it) it’s hard to see them as leaders anymore. Fact is, Mercedes is taking responsibility for its system while Tesla is not. Tesla claims (and especially it’s fanboys) starts to look like Theranos. Yeah it almost work and it will be a game changer. Yeah well… I’m curious about those Tesla videos that are everywhere - is there some kind of dataset somewhere with videos of similar situations, annotated with which version it is etc, so one can make a kind of historical evaluation of its progress ? (Would also like the history of Elon tweets claiming each version fix this or that to go along in the dataset)

onethought 3y ago
Is there a database of videos of Mercedes? I know “they take liability” but if I’m dead, that still sucks. What has Mercedes ceo commented about it? I think you’ll find Mercedes just don’t publish anything, where as Tesla pretty much develop in the open. Regardless of the sausage, some people just don’t like knowing how it’s made.
- TheAlchemist 3y ago
  I don't think there are enough users of this Mercedes thing - and even it there were, they are most certainly not the type of people who will post their videos on youtube... Tesla publishes very limited and extremely biased numbers - they don't publish raw numbers allowing anybody to do the work. "Tesla pretty much develop in the open" - that's the issue though - should something like car auto-pilot be allowed to be developed in the open ? My request was not a shot at Tesla, I just think it would be a very interesting to see - say you are able to isolate and filter all situations of some type (say left turn) from all youtube FSD videos - and compare across the different versions in time. I would love that !
  - onethought 3y ago
    Agree, so that’s at least possible because Tesla allow people to share. Literally no other company has anything like that kind of data in the public domain. Except that stupid “collision self reporting” register California keeps for self driving systems.
- justapassenger 3y ago
  > I think you’ll find Mercedes just don’t publish anything, where as Tesla pretty much develop in the open. Regardless of the sausage, some people just don’t like knowing how it’s made. Can you make this statement with a straight face? That a company develops machines that can kill you any second, up in the open, and have untrained people expose general public to those tests? How would you feel if I’d be developing magical drug, that cures cancer just by drinking it, with no side effects, by just throwing each iteration into your municipal water supply and put it in your kids milk?
  - onethought 3y ago
    But they don’t. People ask to opt in to it. And that is exactly how human trials work in the medical test. So your analogy is apt. Are you saying Mercedes process is better? Where they haven’t done extensive testing and have a brand new drug that has actually never been properly tested in the wild? I’m confused what your point is.
    - justapassenger 3y ago
      Do you know you’re not the only user of the road? And there’s tons of videos, with predictable abuse, where people allow cars to do illegal/dangerous things to see “if it’ll figure it out”? If Tesla influencer his me with his car, I didn’t consent to that. Or when erratic behavior (like FSD driving against the traffic, which you have tons of videos of) will cause others to crash - they didn’t consent to that. Tesla has full “test in prod” approach to their FSD. You can see that from erratic regressions and hot fixes.
      - onethought 3y ago
        But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive? Where as Tesla only allows fully licensed drivers and until recently only pretty good ones at that. I think you’re just regurgitating the standard anti-Tesla talking points… and avoided the questions on the fact Mercedes hasn’t tested this in actual streets and has just rolled it out and while it’s admitting liability isn’t that just as bad as what Tesla is doing? Worse in fact as there no bar for getting this feature, and it doesn’t get shut off for misuse (which FSD beta does). Given all the approaches (with a hope of working) are using AI - how do you get the data to train the AI? This isn’t a Tesla problem, this is an AI training problem. Tesla already makes heavy use of synthetic data, and using real world human drivers to collect training material. How would you do it?
- FinnKuhn 3y ago
  considering the circumstances the system currently supports I can't imagine a scenario that a human driver could have avoided in which the car could cause your death.

onethought 3y ago

Is there a database of videos of Mercedes? I know “they take liability” but if I’m dead, that still sucks. What has Mercedes ceo commented about it? I think you’ll find Mercedes just don’t publish anything, where as Tesla pretty much develop in the open. Regardless of the sausage, some people just don’t like knowing how it’s made.

TheAlchemist 3y ago
I don't think there are enough users of this Mercedes thing - and even it there were, they are most certainly not the type of people who will post their videos on youtube... Tesla publishes very limited and extremely biased numbers - they don't publish raw numbers allowing anybody to do the work. "Tesla pretty much develop in the open" - that's the issue though - should something like car auto-pilot be allowed to be developed in the open ? My request was not a shot at Tesla, I just think it would be a very interesting to see - say you are able to isolate and filter all situations of some type (say left turn) from all youtube FSD videos - and compare across the different versions in time. I would love that !
- onethought 3y ago
  Agree, so that’s at least possible because Tesla allow people to share. Literally no other company has anything like that kind of data in the public domain. Except that stupid “collision self reporting” register California keeps for self driving systems.
justapassenger 3y ago
> I think you’ll find Mercedes just don’t publish anything, where as Tesla pretty much develop in the open. Regardless of the sausage, some people just don’t like knowing how it’s made. Can you make this statement with a straight face? That a company develops machines that can kill you any second, up in the open, and have untrained people expose general public to those tests? How would you feel if I’d be developing magical drug, that cures cancer just by drinking it, with no side effects, by just throwing each iteration into your municipal water supply and put it in your kids milk?
- onethought 3y ago
  But they don’t. People ask to opt in to it. And that is exactly how human trials work in the medical test. So your analogy is apt. Are you saying Mercedes process is better? Where they haven’t done extensive testing and have a brand new drug that has actually never been properly tested in the wild? I’m confused what your point is.
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    Do you know you’re not the only user of the road? And there’s tons of videos, with predictable abuse, where people allow cars to do illegal/dangerous things to see “if it’ll figure it out”? If Tesla influencer his me with his car, I didn’t consent to that. Or when erratic behavior (like FSD driving against the traffic, which you have tons of videos of) will cause others to crash - they didn’t consent to that. Tesla has full “test in prod” approach to their FSD. You can see that from erratic regressions and hot fixes.
    - onethought 3y ago
      But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive? Where as Tesla only allows fully licensed drivers and until recently only pretty good ones at that. I think you’re just regurgitating the standard anti-Tesla talking points… and avoided the questions on the fact Mercedes hasn’t tested this in actual streets and has just rolled it out and while it’s admitting liability isn’t that just as bad as what Tesla is doing? Worse in fact as there no bar for getting this feature, and it doesn’t get shut off for misuse (which FSD beta does). Given all the approaches (with a hope of working) are using AI - how do you get the data to train the AI? This isn’t a Tesla problem, this is an AI training problem. Tesla already makes heavy use of synthetic data, and using real world human drivers to collect training material. How would you do it?
FinnKuhn 3y ago
considering the circumstances the system currently supports I can't imagine a scenario that a human driver could have avoided in which the car could cause your death.