4 ms·

Why should motorcycles have a discount? How big should it be in your opinion, and why?

by Jolter 3y ago

chrisweekly 3y ago
Not OP but: mcycles don't contribute as much to congestion given their smaller size and maneuverability. Also they get about 50mpg.
- throw__away7391 3y ago
  Motorcycles should be charged according to the decibel volume of their engine.
  - eyelidlessness 3y ago
    I’m extraordinarily noise sensitive and I find this appealing for emotional reasons. But I don’t think it’s good policy nonetheless. IME motorcycle drivers are generally among the most respectful about the noise they make, relative to all drivers of all vehicle types. They scoot through and move on. I’d definitely like to charge drivers for their relative noise impact, but I’d start with the recreational sports car drivers and work my way up to industrial vehicle operators who don’t seem to give any fucks, before I even bat an eye at anyone on two wheels.
    - durumu 3y ago
      In NYC specifically, by far the loudest vehicles are dirt bikes — people ride them through streets with absolutely no regard for safety or pedestrians, running reds and honking and revving their engines. I think what you have said is generally true in other US cities I’ve been to though.
      - eyelidlessness 3y ago
        I can definitely acknowledge this varies by location! I’ve been in Seattle for 20 years, and only in the last year or so have I come to terms with the completely superfluous sports car noise as a normal thing here, but it was everyday life in Virginia when I lived there the 20 years prior.
    - throw__away7391 3y ago
      > IME motorcycle drivers are generally among the most respectful about the noise they make, relative to all drivers of all vehicle types. I don't think we live in similar countries. In the US an astonishing percentage of motorcycles are illegally modified to be louder. In NYC there are four loud vehicles, the Lamborghini Aventador, Nissan GTR, the Dodge Challenger Hellcat, and motorcycles. Of these only GTRs behave more obnoxiously than motorcycles (though Hellcat drivers are in close competition). In NYC they like to coast down the street in groups revving their engines, they especially seem to love triggering car alarms. On the other hand in Asia I've never seen this behavior from motorcycles.
- acdha 3y ago
  That’s lower mileage than the car I bought 25 years ago, and it made far less noise pollution.
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
For motorcycles, London gives 100% off the congestion charge. The NY thruway is half off but PANYNJ tolls are just $1 off.
joecool1029 3y ago
Less wear on the roads (due to dramatically lower weight). Less space taken up, more efficient in urban scenarios. Tolls, especially bridge tolls, should scale with the weight of the vehicle.
- LeanderK 3y ago
  I think the size of the vehicle is more important because the main issue is the congestion
RhysU 3y ago
Motorcycles don't cause congestion. Motorcycles can travel through congestion when permitted to lanesplit.
- acdha 3y ago
  They’re not as bad as cars but they still take up a fair amount of space and pollute (noise, fumes) heavily. A modest discount seems appropriate but they definitely should still cost more than transit.
  - RhysU 3y ago
    When moving, they take up the space of about 2 bicycles riding safely. When parked, about 4 bicycles. It's a congestion tax not a fumes tax.
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    I'd be keen to charge vehicles based on noise pollution, but I'm not sure how feasible it is. Does anyone know if it's ever been trialed anywhere?
    - arrosenberg 3y ago
      Seems like it would be easy enough - you register your car, each model has an average and max decibel rating. Your congestion charge includes a factor for that - Harley's pay a bigger markup and EVs pay next to nothing for that particular thing.
      - Jolter 3y ago
        It’s too easy to modify the exhaust on a motorcycle, so I don’t think this would be practical. Local laws here are very strict about noise levels, and vehicles are inspected regularly, yet still there are a lot of drivers with modified machines that can wake up the dead when revved.
  - eggy 3y ago
    They do not pollute heavily fume-wise, and most motorcycles other than Harleys or sport bikes with racing exhausts with the dB component removed are not that loud. I get 60 mpg and the engine is efficient. A car gets half or less that mpg, so is 2 to 3X more polluting than a motorcycle when you have 1-to-1 driver/passenger comparison. 2 people on a moto is even better than a car.

Why should motorcycles have a discount? How big should it be in your opinion, and why?

by Jolter 3y ago

Why should motorcycles have a discount? How big should it be in your opinion, and why?

Not OP but: mcycles don't contribute as much to congestion given their smaller size and maneuverability. Also they get about 50mpg.

throw__away7391 3y ago
Motorcycles should be charged according to the decibel volume of their engine.
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  I’m extraordinarily noise sensitive and I find this appealing for emotional reasons. But I don’t think it’s good policy nonetheless. IME motorcycle drivers are generally among the most respectful about the noise they make, relative to all drivers of all vehicle types. They scoot through and move on. I’d definitely like to charge drivers for their relative noise impact, but I’d start with the recreational sports car drivers and work my way up to industrial vehicle operators who don’t seem to give any fucks, before I even bat an eye at anyone on two wheels.
  - durumu 3y ago
    In NYC specifically, by far the loudest vehicles are dirt bikes — people ride them through streets with absolutely no regard for safety or pedestrians, running reds and honking and revving their engines. I think what you have said is generally true in other US cities I’ve been to though.
    - eyelidlessness 3y ago
      I can definitely acknowledge this varies by location! I’ve been in Seattle for 20 years, and only in the last year or so have I come to terms with the completely superfluous sports car noise as a normal thing here, but it was everyday life in Virginia when I lived there the 20 years prior.
  - throw__away7391 3y ago
    > IME motorcycle drivers are generally among the most respectful about the noise they make, relative to all drivers of all vehicle types. I don't think we live in similar countries. In the US an astonishing percentage of motorcycles are illegally modified to be louder. In NYC there are four loud vehicles, the Lamborghini Aventador, Nissan GTR, the Dodge Challenger Hellcat, and motorcycles. Of these only GTRs behave more obnoxiously than motorcycles (though Hellcat drivers are in close competition). In NYC they like to coast down the street in groups revving their engines, they especially seem to love triggering car alarms. On the other hand in Asia I've never seen this behavior from motorcycles.
acdha 3y ago
That’s lower mileage than the car I bought 25 years ago, and it made far less noise pollution.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago

For motorcycles, London gives 100% off the congestion charge. The NY thruway is half off but PANYNJ tolls are just $1 off.

joecool1029 3y ago

Less wear on the roads (due to dramatically lower weight). Less space taken up, more efficient in urban scenarios. Tolls, especially bridge tolls, should scale with the weight of the vehicle.

LeanderK 3y ago
I think the size of the vehicle is more important because the main issue is the congestion

RhysU 3y ago

Motorcycles don't cause congestion. Motorcycles can travel through congestion when permitted to lanesplit.

acdha 3y ago
They’re not as bad as cars but they still take up a fair amount of space and pollute (noise, fumes) heavily. A modest discount seems appropriate but they definitely should still cost more than transit.
- RhysU 3y ago
  When moving, they take up the space of about 2 bicycles riding safely. When parked, about 4 bicycles. It's a congestion tax not a fumes tax.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  I'd be keen to charge vehicles based on noise pollution, but I'm not sure how feasible it is. Does anyone know if it's ever been trialed anywhere?
  - arrosenberg 3y ago
    Seems like it would be easy enough - you register your car, each model has an average and max decibel rating. Your congestion charge includes a factor for that - Harley's pay a bigger markup and EVs pay next to nothing for that particular thing.
    - Jolter 3y ago
      It’s too easy to modify the exhaust on a motorcycle, so I don’t think this would be practical. Local laws here are very strict about noise levels, and vehicles are inspected regularly, yet still there are a lot of drivers with modified machines that can wake up the dead when revved.
- eggy 3y ago
  They do not pollute heavily fume-wise, and most motorcycles other than Harleys or sport bikes with racing exhausts with the dB component removed are not that loud. I get 60 mpg and the engine is efficient. A car gets half or less that mpg, so is 2 to 3X more polluting than a motorcycle when you have 1-to-1 driver/passenger comparison. 2 people on a moto is even better than a car.