4 ms·

My takeaway from Kacynski’s manifesto is that he makes an astute observation about the root causes of unhappiness, but then proposes an absurd solution. The as

My takeaway from Kacynski’s manifesto is that he makes an astute observation about the root causes of unhappiness, but then proposes an absurd solution. The astute observation is that a lot of unhappiness is driven by over-socialization and a commitment to inauthentic, subjective values. The solution, to tear down technology to force mankind to work on more primitive goals, only makes sense if there are no alternatives. Thankfully there are many alternatives. First and foremost, I think people like Ted just need to realize that the yearning to be important and useful is natural, but something you can let go of if you stop taking life so seriously.

dennis_jeeves1 3y ago
>Thankfully there are many alternatives. What exactly are they? (the last I checked is that it's virtually impossible to live somewhere (even remote) off the land, without paying a ton in taxes, if you did succeed in some manner without attracting attention in a remote place it would soon get the attention of authorities in due course).
- fairity 3y ago
  IMO, the alternatives are all based on a reframing of mindset versus a change in external environment. My understanding is that most of Kacynski’s disillusionment was born out of: - a recognition of how artificial most people’s values and goals are - an inability to find authentic & fulfilling values and goals - an innate urge to be useful and important Put another way, Kacynski didn’t want to be like the brainwashed masses that chase status, approval, and riches. But, when he looked around for better things to spend his time on, he didn’t find any bc technology is so advanced. I think the alternative to burning everything down is learning how to disconnect from the need to feel important and useful. It’s this inability to disconnect from the need to be useful and authentic that ultimately causes the disillusionment. The ability to do so starts with an acceptance of the absurdity of life and a release of one’s ego. To put it colloquially, learning to not take things so seriously.
  - dennis_jeeves1 3y ago
    All I wanted to do was live life off the land without interference, guess from what you are said it's too much to ask for...
  - armitron 3y ago
    "the alternatives are all based on a reframing of mindset versus a change in external environment." In other words, being forced (or reengineered as Kaczynski writes) to take it. Not exactly an alternative now is it? Imagine telling the victims of the Holocaust, on their way to the crematoria, that they should accept the absurdity of life and release their ego, learn to not take things so seriously. Kaczynski's essential view on the destruction of the human condition by technology is of similar order to the contemporary view of Holocaust atrocities. I don't agree with Kaczynski's philosophy as I'm as far from a luddite as one can possibly be, but I have put the time in to digest his work and I find few-if-any flaws in his major positions. Superficial dismissals of the sort one frequently encounters in this thread expose their originators as hopelessly naive and reinforce Kaczynski's message.
    - fairity 3y ago
      Whether it's appropriate to "force someone to take it" depends on the degree of pain being caused. There's some threshold of pain over which it's reasonable to consider major restructuring of society, and it could be useful to have a discussion on where that threshold is, but the fact that you're comparing your current state to being in a Nazi labor camp doesn't make me think that's a good use of my time. The disillusionment & accompanied emotional pain described by Kacynski simply doesn't pass the bar for me, especially when a bit of meditation and dedication to your mental health will bring happiness.
lostmsu 3y ago
> only makes sense if there are no alternatives Ah? I don't think it makes sense, alternatives or not. Neither the "commitment to subjective values* nor taking down society to solve that.

dennis_jeeves1 3y ago

>Thankfully there are many alternatives. What exactly are they? (the last I checked is that it's virtually impossible to live somewhere (even remote) off the land, without paying a ton in taxes, if you did succeed in some manner without attracting attention in a remote place it would soon get the attention of authorities in due course).

fairity 3y ago
IMO, the alternatives are all based on a reframing of mindset versus a change in external environment. My understanding is that most of Kacynski’s disillusionment was born out of: - a recognition of how artificial most people’s values and goals are - an inability to find authentic & fulfilling values and goals - an innate urge to be useful and important Put another way, Kacynski didn’t want to be like the brainwashed masses that chase status, approval, and riches. But, when he looked around for better things to spend his time on, he didn’t find any bc technology is so advanced. I think the alternative to burning everything down is learning how to disconnect from the need to feel important and useful. It’s this inability to disconnect from the need to be useful and authentic that ultimately causes the disillusionment. The ability to do so starts with an acceptance of the absurdity of life and a release of one’s ego. To put it colloquially, learning to not take things so seriously.
- dennis_jeeves1 3y ago
  All I wanted to do was live life off the land without interference, guess from what you are said it's too much to ask for...
- armitron 3y ago
  "the alternatives are all based on a reframing of mindset versus a change in external environment." In other words, being forced (or reengineered as Kaczynski writes) to take it. Not exactly an alternative now is it? Imagine telling the victims of the Holocaust, on their way to the crematoria, that they should accept the absurdity of life and release their ego, learn to not take things so seriously. Kaczynski's essential view on the destruction of the human condition by technology is of similar order to the contemporary view of Holocaust atrocities. I don't agree with Kaczynski's philosophy as I'm as far from a luddite as one can possibly be, but I have put the time in to digest his work and I find few-if-any flaws in his major positions. Superficial dismissals of the sort one frequently encounters in this thread expose their originators as hopelessly naive and reinforce Kaczynski's message.
  - fairity 3y ago
    Whether it's appropriate to "force someone to take it" depends on the degree of pain being caused. There's some threshold of pain over which it's reasonable to consider major restructuring of society, and it could be useful to have a discussion on where that threshold is, but the fact that you're comparing your current state to being in a Nazi labor camp doesn't make me think that's a good use of my time. The disillusionment & accompanied emotional pain described by Kacynski simply doesn't pass the bar for me, especially when a bit of meditation and dedication to your mental health will bring happiness.

lostmsu 3y ago

> only makes sense if there are no alternatives Ah? I don't think it makes sense, alternatives or not. Neither the "commitment to subjective values* nor taking down society to solve that.