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Twitter is refusing to pay its Google Cloud bill
- Schnitz 3y agoGoogle should simply give them a deadline, pay within 30 days or we shut your stuff down. If they don’t pay shut it off and collect in full. Everything else is unfair to customers that pay in full and on time.
- late2part 3y agoWow, that's some really interesting definition of 'fair'
- Nextgrid 3y agoWhy? If you or me don't pay our bills, I fully expect the service to be terminated in 30 days... probably less than that in fact. Shitter shouldn't get the same treatment as a big, well-known client (although given the quality of Google's support, I wouldn't be surprised if they do, thanks to runaway automation that can't be tamed even for big clients they very much want to give leeway to) Shitter is in fact banking on that as part of renegotiations. I find it completely fair if they did get the same treatment as everyone else.
- deserialized 3y agoStop paying your power bill or your internet bill and find out
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bombcar 3y agoAmusingly enough failing to pay utilities results in some of the most lenient reactions possible; partially because many localities make it illegal to remove electricity/gas service during "extreme weather months" (because old people freezing to death because they didn't pay a bill is really bad publicity for the utility and the government) and partially because they know they'll get theirs eventually. They will cut you off when the time comes, but it can sometimes be surprisingly long. And they will put a lien against the property, too.
- earthling8118 3y agoHaving been in this situation myself, no they did not give a lenient time. I got a letter stating that they would shut off my electricity and gas. I had a mere couple of days to sort it out. In my case it was their fault. I configured automatic payments and they migrated their online system and subsequently dropped my data for payments. Still, they were ruthless about it.
- bombcar 3y agoDid you go past the threatened shut-off date? What I've usually seen is they threaten to shut you off with very strong wording, and then continue to threaten you for 3-6 months before they bother to send someone out.
- deserialized 3y agoMy experience with LG&E and Time Warner in Kentucky circa 2008 was getting a shutoff notice dated the day after the payment due date with 14 days to comply. They did in-fact shut the power off at the state date. This was a common occurrence that people referred to as 'brown billing' because the shutoff notice had a brown header instead of the green header on your regular utility bill.
- lxgr 3y agoI'd be surprised if there wasn't very specific language on the consequences of late payments in their mutual contract (whether standard or custom drafted).
- slater 3y agoThe irony: "Keep reading with a 7-day free trial"
- jrflowers 3y agoWhat does irony mean?
- slater 3y ago[flagged]
- jrflowers 3y agoAh I see, it is ironic because Twitter is paying for a subscription to Platformer News
- slater 3y agoNo, it's because nobody other than folks subscribed to platformer news can read the linked article beyond 2-3 paragraphs.
- dbbk 3y agoIt's not ironic
- BulgarianIdiot 3y agoIt's ironic that you say that. (Like rain on a wedding day)
- slater 3y agoIt is.
- jrflowers 3y agoOh I get it, the subscribers are paying for Platformer News’ Google Cloud bill and that makes this an ironic article
- michaelteter 3y agoIf that is true, then dump them! When a billionaire is too busy to pay bills, then he should be shut off. Of course there will always be some suck-up willing to front services to a rich person, but usually the provider will get screwed on the deal. Google needs to learn to be proactive instead of quietly reactive on everything. They have no voice in the world, despite the immense power they have. Perhaps that is a strategy.
- BulgarianIdiot 3y agoLet me clue you in: it's not that simple. If Google simply "dumps them", then Twitter will sue back with arbitrarily large damages, which far outweigh the money Twitter owes to Google. It all hinges on details of their contract (or lack thereof), and Google has to tread carefully because the black PR of Twitter dragging them around as a result (and you know very well Elon is GREAT at playing the victim) will result in massive losses from other businesses using Google Cloud.
- esafak 3y agoMusk seems to believe he has more leverage than he does. Pull a power move, get your power tested.
- BulgarianIdiot 3y agoWe don't like it, but he keeps testing his power and getting his way. Sometimes I don't even know how. But truth is law and order stop applying when you have power or wealth.
- michaelteter 3y agoI think there's a distinction to be made. The powerful to exert their power without making public noise are probably more likely to get away with it. But the ones who proudly (stupidly?) publicly proclaim their misbehavior tend to fare less well. There's a very high profile example of this right now in the US, and I suspect it will demonstrate the difference between silent abuse of power vs overt public abuse of it.
- activiation 3y agoNot sure if Twitter still need this contract because I can't read the whole article.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mcv 3y agoSounds like this isn't about hosting Twitter itself, but some additional moderating-related services. That actually fits the pattern of where Musk tries to cut costs, although doing it by simply not paying bills is bizarre and stupid, and makes it less likely anyone else will ever want to do business with him.
- hgsgm 3y agoWow, so Musk is like a chemical factory refusing to pay the toxic waste cleanup bills, and daring the world to stop cleaning up after him.
- tedunangst 3y agoI assume that by shutting them off, you forego collecting on some or all of the future contracted payments, but if you just leave the account in arrears, as long as you're confident they have the money somewhere, you'll eventually get all of it. Better to keep the meter running.
- erulabs 3y agoAn anonymous source claims they’re not paying a bill that they’ve publicly stated they’re trying to renegotiate. What’s the term, “nothingburger”?
- haileys 3y agoFrom the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. I tried both 12ft.io and archive.is to read this article, but neither seemed to work. Has anyone managed to bypass the paywall here and can share what worked for them?
- fwlr 3y agoI haven’t read the article, but one multi-billion-dollar company “refusing to pay its bill” to another multi-billion-dollar company is simply part of the contract re-negotiation process, no? (In the case where one company refuses to re-negotiate - either directly by saying so, or indirectly by tying it up in endless customer support redirects - it is arguably a necessary step, even.) I get the sense that this reporting is trying to lean heavily on the usual implications of “refusing to pay the bill”, which is that one can’t pay the bill. But that implication obviously isn’t at play here; Google Cloud isn’t worried that Twitter is broke. In all likelihood what’s actually happening is that Google Cloud strongly expects the new contract to be less profitable for them, and thus they wish to delay and drag out re-negotiations so they can have the more profitable contract for longer. Refusal to pay invites a lawsuit; if the cost of the lawsuit exceeds the profit that would be gained by holding onto the old contract for longer, it makes more sense to re-negotiate now. I predict Google Cloud will launch a token lawsuit for non-payment and come to the negotiation table at the same time, and when new terms are agreed on Twitter will settle the lawsuit by paying the old contract rates up to the date of the new contract.
- jsnell 3y agoNo, it isn't normal to not pay the bills for services already rendered in order to try to get a better deal in future contract renegotiations. I don't know why you would think it is the expected behavior.
- fwlr 3y agoI don’t think this is normal or an expected behavior, apologies if my comment gave that impression. My claim is more that ‘Twitter not paying Google Cloud’ and ‘me not paying my mechanic’ are both situations where the phrase “refusing to pay the bill for services already rendered” is a true and accurate denotative description, but the connotations are significantly different. For clarity’s sake, I completely agree that it’s a moral imperative to pay your bills on time and in full; what I’m saying here is that I’m not sure that moral imperatives are even the right framework for looking at these interactions between large companies (eg people have morality and ethics, companies have regulations and lawsuits).
- soraminazuki 3y agoIt's rare to see Google continuing service for a non-paying customer. Usually, we see stories of them randomly banning people along with their digital livelihoods with no meaningful appeal process.
- jcz_nz 3y agoIn my (direct) experience they are actually quite reasonable about payment hiccups, even extended ones. … at least when your spend is sufficiently high (500k/y+??)
- dafelst 3y agoIt turns out there are different rules for different customers
- Nextgrid 3y agoI wouldn't be surprised if Google got so far over their head with various layers of automation they themselves don't know about that even a big customer will get shut down automatically.
- omoikane 3y agoI am not sure we have seen stories of "I intentionally didn't pay, and was surprised to lose my service". It's in Google's best interest to maintain continued service for GCP customers since any disruption makes both the customer and Google look bad, regardless of who is at fault. Google likely cares very much about Twitter's users, while Twitter might care more about what services they can lose, potentially at the expense of their users.
- soraminazuki 3y agoHere's a story from a couple who got their entire Google account banned forever because their bank had an issue processing a payment for Google Fi: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18886804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18886804 Here's another case where Google kept charging for a service they failed to deliver and refused to refund that stolen money: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19956090 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19956090 Both cause harm to people's livelihoods, but they went on anyways. It's very different from the attitude they're showing towards Twitter.
- IOT_Apprentice 3y agoIt appears that Twitter is doing the same thing to AWS that it is attempting to do with Google. Both should just bounce Twitter and sue them in court. All Twitter has left is Azure and if they pull the same nonsense, Musk better sell more stock and start building data centers. Not paying, is unprofessional, and is a poor way to treat your vendors or maintain a relationship with them.
- PeterStuer 3y agoWe might not like it, but being stingy when it comes to payments is normal professional business practice.
- lapcat 3y ago> We might not like it, but being stingy when it comes to payments is normal professional business practice. It's absolutely not. The entire economy would break down if every company was constantly "renegotiating", i.e., refusing to pay their bills. People like Musk and Trump who make a habit of this behavior are not normal. Please let's not try to normalize it.
- viraptor 3y agoNET 90 and asking for special quotes from big companies is definitely something that happens all the time. I'd say that is being stingy with payments. (It should be normal of course, but... that's what contractors often deal with)
- harha_ 3y agoIt's behind a paywall, so I didn't read it, but I guess twitter wants to renegotiate their pricing and they feel like this is the only way to attract google's attention? I don't see anything particularly unusual in this tactic.
- stunt 3y agoI heard from someone in my network that this is becoming a trend. His theory is that this may have something to do with higher interest rates. Customers delay large bills for as long as they can.