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> I think about cities that have implemented taxes for disposable plastic bags. I find it somewhat hilarious how many people consider these policies to be anti-
by pclmulqdq 3y ago
> I think about cities that have implemented taxes for disposable plastic bags. I find it somewhat hilarious how many people consider these policies to be anti-freedom government money-grabs. They make a libertarian's blood boil!
> Even assuming those folks are correct, it doesn't really matter, because these taxes are incredibly effective. It's eye-opening to see how a nearly insignificant tax (literal pennies per bag) changes the behavior of everyone.
I am a libertarian-minded person who takes issues with these taxes and related plastic bag bans. My gripe is that the alternatives to plastic bags are pretty much universally less green, and both plastic pollution and total CO2 spent on grocery bags go up when a bag tax/ban enters. Flimsy plastic grocery bags get re-used as garbage bags. Paper bags, and god forbid reusable cotton bags, emit much more CO2 per use than single-use plastic bags, even if you re-use your paper bags a few times and re-use your cotton bag 100 times. They make no sense, from an environmental perspective.
They are effective at changing behavior, which could be what you mean by "effective," but they do not change behavior in an environmentally positive direction.
- wizofaus 3y agoI never thought reducing emissions was the reason for trying to reduce disposable plastic bag usage, though I don't doubt many might believe it does.
- pclmulqdq 3y agoThe messaging I saw in NYC when the ban was coming in was all about carbon footprint. Do you think the reason is reducing plastic pollution? Because it went up in Australia after their plastic bag ban, since those plastic bags were replaced by heavier plastic bin liners: https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/plastic-bag-ban-you-dont-actually-need-a-plastic-bin-liner-to-put-your-rubbish-out/news-story/629abba62ae7d5174208ca36d43615f2 https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/plastic-bag-... I think the "bailey" of plastic bag ban proponents is the sea life that gets stuck in plastic bags, but there is no way they would have gotten a ban passed on the back of the impact to sea life.
- wizofaus 3y agoI wouldn't exactly pay to much attention to news.com.au as a reliable source for whether a pro-environmental policy has been effective. I'm personally skeptical about the likely overall effectiveness of plastic bag bans, but I've seen no evidence that increased use of bin liners has somehow made plastic pollution worse here- and for me it is absolutely the blight of seeing loose bits of plastic ending up in the natural environment (both in and out of the ocean) that I'm most keen to see reduced.
- pclmulqdq 3y agoIt's usually your opponents who hold you accountable for your failures. There are plenty of primary sources available for the claims in that article.