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> only cheap because we build solar panels and wind turbines using fossil and nuclear fuel. This is not logical. We are building solar panels and wind turbine

> only cheap because we build solar panels and wind turbines using fossil and nuclear fuel. This is not logical. We are building solar panels and wind turbines with fossil fuels becuase that's the energy source we have now, now becuase they are cheap. Once we have enough energy from solar and wind, that energy will be cheaper than fossil fuels, and that input to their production will be cheaper, reducing the cost of wind turbines and solar panels further. Fossil fuels have been made obsolete for most use cases, and we are building the industrial capacity to replace them as fast as we possibly can. If you don't believe me, check out what the world is deploying for new electricity production. Especially in profit driven markets like Texas' ERCOT. Outside of ERCOT, most of the grid decisions are smoky-room deals with lots of corruption, and there fossil fuels tend to have a huge leg up, since more expensive electricity means a higher profit level for the utility.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
No. Fossil fuel are dense, easy to transport, and extracting energy from it is super simple. It's not the case for wind and solar. Right now, we are calculating the cost of wind and solar energy by evaluating the cost of transport and manufacturing of very complex system powered by fossil fuel. We say they are profitable in this context, and only in this context. If we were to transport and manufacture them solely self-bootstrapped by solar and wind, it would not be cost efficient. I think most people underestimate how much energy transport and metal work uses. Every single electronic circuit, every single screw, tire and wire are made using fossil fuel. And the food, home, roads and heat systems of the people working on those are all powered mostly with fossil fuel. Not just because it's a habit. It turns out you can escape thermodynamics . Energy density matters A LOT. If you take an entire cinema of air and pass it through a wind turbine, you get the equivalent of a drop of oil. That's how magical oil is. Now it's quite possible in the future we improve the tech so much, and we have such an abundance of it that it will be a net win. I'm rooting for that. Oil has terrible side effects, no matter how awesome it is, we need to get rid of it. But for now, we are funding the green revolution with fossil fuel. Don't get me wrong, this is a smart strategy. There is no way around it. However, putting our head in the sand is not going to help.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

No. Fossil fuel are dense, easy to transport, and extracting energy from it is super simple. It's not the case for wind and solar. Right now, we are calculating the cost of wind and solar energy by evaluating the cost of transport and manufacturing of very complex system powered by fossil fuel. We say they are profitable in this context, and only in this context. If we were to transport and manufacture them solely self-bootstrapped by solar and wind, it would not be cost efficient. I think most people underestimate how much energy transport and metal work uses. Every single electronic circuit, every single screw, tire and wire are made using fossil fuel. And the food, home, roads and heat systems of the people working on those are all powered mostly with fossil fuel. Not just because it's a habit. It turns out you can escape thermodynamics . Energy density matters A LOT. If you take an entire cinema of air and pass it through a wind turbine, you get the equivalent of a drop of oil. That's how magical oil is. Now it's quite possible in the future we improve the tech so much, and we have such an abundance of it that it will be a net win. I'm rooting for that. Oil has terrible side effects, no matter how awesome it is, we need to get rid of it. But for now, we are funding the green revolution with fossil fuel. Don't get me wrong, this is a smart strategy. There is no way around it. However, putting our head in the sand is not going to help.