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I was a project engineer in a hydrogen fuel cell research lab for a few years. To add to this, hydrogen also: - is the smallest molecule; as such is very diff

I was a project engineer in a hydrogen fuel cell research lab for a few years. To add to this, hydrogen also: - is the smallest molecule; as such is very difficult to contain - embrittles and degrades most steels - is ignited by a miniscule amount of energy, such as static sparks - has a terribly rapid flame front, which means big boom when it does ignite Everyone has seen the consequences of pilot lights going out while owners are on vacation. House fills with natural gas, fridge compressor kicks on, ignites gas, house explodes. A house filled with hydrogen would not only destroy the house containing it, but the houses next to it as well, and it would be much more likely to ignite due to its much lower ignition energy. I do not trust contractors to install hydrogen piping, and I do not trust homeowners to maintain their hydrogen sensors. I would NEVER live in a building that had hydrogen stored (as in a vehicle tank) or piped inside. There are simply too many ways for that scenario to go wrong, and if it does go wrong, it goes wrong in a very bad way.

dmbche 3y ago
Would it be reasonable to reserve hydrogen for electric plants then? Bringing power from far away and burning the hydrogen to power locals?
senectus1 3y ago
>Everyone has seen the consequences of pilot lights going out while owners are on vacation. House fills with natural gas, fridge compressor kicks on, ignites gas, house explodes. A house filled with hydrogen would not only destroy the house containing it, but the houses next to it as well, and it would be much more likely to ignite due to its much lower ignition energy. So Its molecule is so tiny it's hard to contain even in specially constructed containers, but in a house leak it'll hang around and build up enough in a house to level a suburb block? You can't have it both ways.
- somewhat_drunk 3y ago
  An obvious false equivalence. The difference is pressure.
- dmbche 3y ago
  To clarify with the false equivalence : when pressurized at more than atmosphere, the pressure pushes the hydrogen through containement easily. This is problematic, as we would need hermetic containement. If leaked into a house, the pressure remains 1 atm - the issue is not with the pressure, but with the amount of atoms of hydrogen being close enough that, if one catches fire, it will spread to enough atoms to cause an explosion that will raise a block. The atoms are not moving quickly to escape the house, they observe light motion as particles in the still-ish air of the house, so after some time they overcrowd the house without even having to reach the outside wall, they could all hang around the pipe.
bjowen 3y ago
Has there been any serious proposal for hydrogen to replace reticulated gas in domestic supply? The cost to refit existing infra would surely make it less attractive than something like power-to-methane.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago
  It's talked about a lot in the UK and Germany. In the UK, British Gas and Cadet tried to force 2,000 some homes to change to hydrogen by cutting of their natural gas supply in order to run a trial project [0]. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/people-cheshire-village-not-forced-join-hydrogen-energy-trial-whitby https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/people-ches...
rstuart4133 3y ago
I always thought the nightmare scenario was hydrogen powered cars. Keeping hydrogen contained while being rattled and banged every day would be a challenge in the best of scenarios, but some of these cars will end up being be 20 years old, with the absolute minimum spent of maintenance. Now park 1000 of those cars in a multi story parking station, or under a block of housing units.
- somewhat_drunk 3y ago
  Indeed. It's not a feasible solution on that basis alone.

dmbche 3y ago

Would it be reasonable to reserve hydrogen for electric plants then? Bringing power from far away and burning the hydrogen to power locals?

senectus1 3y ago

>Everyone has seen the consequences of pilot lights going out while owners are on vacation. House fills with natural gas, fridge compressor kicks on, ignites gas, house explodes. A house filled with hydrogen would not only destroy the house containing it, but the houses next to it as well, and it would be much more likely to ignite due to its much lower ignition energy. So Its molecule is so tiny it's hard to contain even in specially constructed containers, but in a house leak it'll hang around and build up enough in a house to level a suburb block? You can't have it both ways.

somewhat_drunk 3y ago
An obvious false equivalence. The difference is pressure.
dmbche 3y ago
To clarify with the false equivalence : when pressurized at more than atmosphere, the pressure pushes the hydrogen through containement easily. This is problematic, as we would need hermetic containement. If leaked into a house, the pressure remains 1 atm - the issue is not with the pressure, but with the amount of atoms of hydrogen being close enough that, if one catches fire, it will spread to enough atoms to cause an explosion that will raise a block. The atoms are not moving quickly to escape the house, they observe light motion as particles in the still-ish air of the house, so after some time they overcrowd the house without even having to reach the outside wall, they could all hang around the pipe.

bjowen 3y ago

Has there been any serious proposal for hydrogen to replace reticulated gas in domestic supply? The cost to refit existing infra would surely make it less attractive than something like power-to-methane.

_aavaa_ 3y ago
It's talked about a lot in the UK and Germany. In the UK, British Gas and Cadet tried to force 2,000 some homes to change to hydrogen by cutting of their natural gas supply in order to run a trial project [0]. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/people-cheshire-village-not-forced-join-hydrogen-energy-trial-whitby https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/people-ches...

rstuart4133 3y ago

I always thought the nightmare scenario was hydrogen powered cars. Keeping hydrogen contained while being rattled and banged every day would be a challenge in the best of scenarios, but some of these cars will end up being be 20 years old, with the absolute minimum spent of maintenance. Now park 1000 of those cars in a multi story parking station, or under a block of housing units.

somewhat_drunk 3y ago
Indeed. It's not a feasible solution on that basis alone.