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[1] (2) (A) “Autonomous vehicle” means any vehicle equipped with autonomous technology that has been integrated into that vehicle that meets the definition of L

[1] (2) (A) “Autonomous vehicle” means any vehicle equipped with autonomous technology that has been integrated into that vehicle that meets the definition of Level 3, Level 4, or Level 5 [2] (c) The manufacturer has in place and has provided the department with evidence of the manufacturer's ability to respond to a judgment or judgments for damages for personal injury, death, or property damage arising from the operation of autonomous vehicles on public roads [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=38750 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... [2] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/adopted-regulatory-text-pdf/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/adopted-regulatory-text-p... > FWIW, this is mostly spin anyway. Liability isn't generally something that is granted, it's either there or not. Mercedes is releasing an L3 product in a jurisdiction where operation of L3 products is insured by the manufacturer. That is substantially different than "someone could sue them and maybe maybe maybe win" > The reason that "Tesla is liable for accidents" doesn't make news is... that there are vanishingly few AP/FSD accidents. There have been 736 known AP/FSD crashes and 17 deaths. The reason that "Tesla is liable for accidents" doesn't make news is that they aren't legally liable for their level 2 system under existing AV regulation. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/theres-been-a-whopping-736-tesla-crashes-involving-autopilot-mode-since-2019-report-finds/ar-AA1cnzgH https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/theres-been-a-whopping-...

ajross 3y ago
Sorry, where do you get "accept liability" from "ability to respond to a judgement for damages"? That's not a requirement to pay, that just requires that the company have the ability to pay if they are found liable! It's the corporate equivalent of requiring liability insurance. Show me the contract (or hell, even a press release) where Mercedes acknowledged accepting liability in the US. I really don't think this happened.
- piotrkaminski 3y ago
  There were a ton of articles around 2022-03-20 (e.g., [1]) that had a line like this: > Once you engage Drive Pilot, you are no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages. Not quite a press release but given that Mercedes never denied the claims it's pretty close. It'll be interesting to see how this is implemented legally, of course. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-mercedes-drivepilot-causes-a-crash/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...
  - ajross 3y ago
    That was a German product though. The press release about the american rollout is notably missing that language.
    - piotrkaminski 3y ago
      Hmm, the latest article [1] specifically about the California authorization says: > When active, Mercedes takes responsibility for Drive Pilot's actions. and > "Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot is the world's only SAE Level 3 system with internationally valid type approval," Mercedes CTO Markus Schäfer said in a statement. Not as clear-cut as you'd want it to be but certainly leaning towards the claim. I guess we'll know for sure once the cars actually go on sale in California. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44139131/mercedes-benz-selling-level-3-self-driving-cars-california/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44139131/mercedes-benz-se...
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  Why are you quoting "accept liability" as if its something I actually said? > Show me the contract (or hell, even a press release) where Mercedes acknowledged accepting liability in the US. I'm not sure why this is the bar to clear, there is no reason Mercedes would want to potentially open themselves to more responsibility than the law requires. That said, it should be obvious to most people that Mercedes is taking some legal exposure when they: 1) call their product SAE L3 when SAE L3 is the legal definition of a vehicle where the operator doesn't have to pay attention under certain circumstances. 2) tell the user they can watch movies while driving! (no US manual available yet but they make a similar statement in the press release) https://moba.i.mercedes-benz.com/baix/cars/223.1_mbux_2021_a/en_GB/page/ID_ebdcf4d8f2cf09cbac190d2b6038969c-f7a85dbbf2cf09cbac190d2b0a099075-en-GB.html# https://moba.i.mercedes-benz.com/baix/cars/223.1_mbux_2021_a... That very obviously speaks to their level of confidence in their system compared to something like FSD: > It may do the wrong thing at the worst time, so you must always keep your hands on the wheel and pay extra attention on the road. some legal analysis of US law on AV liability if you're interested: https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publications/2951f5ce/autonomous-vehicles-the-legal-landscape-in-the-us https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publication...

ajross 3y ago

Sorry, where do you get "accept liability" from "ability to respond to a judgement for damages"? That's not a requirement to pay, that just requires that the company have the ability to pay if they are found liable! It's the corporate equivalent of requiring liability insurance. Show me the contract (or hell, even a press release) where Mercedes acknowledged accepting liability in the US. I really don't think this happened.

piotrkaminski 3y ago
There were a ton of articles around 2022-03-20 (e.g., [1]) that had a line like this: > Once you engage Drive Pilot, you are no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages. Not quite a press release but given that Mercedes never denied the claims it's pretty close. It'll be interesting to see how this is implemented legally, of course. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-mercedes-drivepilot-causes-a-crash/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...
- ajross 3y ago
  That was a German product though. The press release about the american rollout is notably missing that language.
  - piotrkaminski 3y ago
    Hmm, the latest article [1] specifically about the California authorization says: > When active, Mercedes takes responsibility for Drive Pilot's actions. and > "Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot is the world's only SAE Level 3 system with internationally valid type approval," Mercedes CTO Markus Schäfer said in a statement. Not as clear-cut as you'd want it to be but certainly leaning towards the claim. I guess we'll know for sure once the cars actually go on sale in California. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44139131/mercedes-benz-selling-level-3-self-driving-cars-california/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44139131/mercedes-benz-se...
enragedcacti 3y ago
Why are you quoting "accept liability" as if its something I actually said? > Show me the contract (or hell, even a press release) where Mercedes acknowledged accepting liability in the US. I'm not sure why this is the bar to clear, there is no reason Mercedes would want to potentially open themselves to more responsibility than the law requires. That said, it should be obvious to most people that Mercedes is taking some legal exposure when they: 1) call their product SAE L3 when SAE L3 is the legal definition of a vehicle where the operator doesn't have to pay attention under certain circumstances. 2) tell the user they can watch movies while driving! (no US manual available yet but they make a similar statement in the press release) https://moba.i.mercedes-benz.com/baix/cars/223.1_mbux_2021_a/en_GB/page/ID_ebdcf4d8f2cf09cbac190d2b6038969c-f7a85dbbf2cf09cbac190d2b0a099075-en-GB.html# https://moba.i.mercedes-benz.com/baix/cars/223.1_mbux_2021_a... That very obviously speaks to their level of confidence in their system compared to something like FSD: > It may do the wrong thing at the worst time, so you must always keep your hands on the wheel and pay extra attention on the road. some legal analysis of US law on AV liability if you're interested: https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publications/2951f5ce/autonomous-vehicles-the-legal-landscape-in-the-us https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publication...