7 ms·

Also Lewis Mumford [1], Günther Anders [2], or if you want to go truly underground, Gilbert Simondon [3] [4] or Friedrich Kittler [5]. If there are thinkers wh

• golemotron 3y ago
  > Besides, to think that there even is such a thing called technology (as distinguished from what) is incredibly naive The same could be said about Capitalism.
  • dbspin 3y ago
    This is an ideological position, termed Capitalist Realism [1]. Given the failing of social reproduction, environmental protection, long term planning against existential and systemic risk, the mental health crisis and the collapse of civil and political life, under entrenched and victorious capitalism - an increasingly absurd one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism
    • cscurmudgeon 3y ago
      All of those happen in non-capitalist societies too and some times to a more larger extent.
      • dbspin 3y ago
        Both of us seem to agree that there is such a thing called capitalism.
        • cscurmudgeon 3y ago
          Yes, and I can even bet that unless a species is a hive mind, any intelligent species will have something like capitalism. The inverse is that to enforce a non-capitalist system, you have to brutally shape a society into something that is like a hive mind.
          • noduerme 3y ago
            This seems true from our experiences attempting to implement non-capitalist systems in large societies. I think there could be a caveat for very small societies, especially those voluntarily joined, in which sharing goods and labor is possible with democratic modes of conflict management. There are also non-democratic capitalist systems that resort to extreme repression in order to resolve or suppress internal conflict. At scale, I agree no other economic system seems as compatible with democracy and individual choice, but as recent history has shown in Russia and China, capitalism itself doesn't seem sufficient to give rise to liberty.
        • goblin89 3y ago
          One can say “non-capitalist society” yet mean that capitalism is the only thing that there ever is. Capitalism is a way to look at things, and it doesn’t require a modern society—social capital and economics of prestige is a thing since forever[0]. Indeed, in all large-scale supposed “non-capitalist” societies today there is capital—it doesn’t stop being so if a few people use unlimited power and oppression to install arbitrary rules and restrictions on capital for others without having being subject to any checks or balances themselves; it just becomes more contrived and perhaps perverted. Some would probably say that it’s the infectious external influence of other capitalist countries that precludes full abolition of capital, but another way to look at it is that said external influence is in fact what gives such a regime life in the first place—i.e., if you remove the agitating antagonistic existence of “capitalism”, the pretend “non-capitalism capitalism” would not suddenly turn into a perfectly “non-capitalism non-capitalism” but rather revert to capitalism, regardless of whether it would be called so or not or whether it would happen violently or peacefully. [0] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/03/inequalities/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/03/inequalities/
• jlkanowski 3y ago
  This is the correct list everyone, I wrote a thesis about the parallels between those thinkers and Ted K
  • sizzle 3y ago
    Got a copy we can read? Sounds interesting
• msla 3y ago
  > If there are thinkers who have been in the conceptual space of the 23rd century and beyond, Simondon was surely one. The 23rd Century shouldn't belong to ecofascists.
  • ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
    None of those mentioned are ecofascists, especially not Simondon [1], that was the point: the true radicals destroy the future worlds, not directly the present one. Alan Turing destroyed all the multiverse branches [2] in which we don't use computation. Norman Borlaug [3] destroyed all the multiverse branches in which we don't have high-yield wheat. Perhaps an even better parallel would have been Alexander Grothendieck [3], the mathematician of the 20th century (maybe even of the 21st century if concepts as the topos [4] are made into usable tools for deep neural networks [5]), but also a person who was teaching mathematics in Vietnam [6] while hiding from bombs. When the world burns, all that remains is the Glasperlenspiel [7]. [1] 2022, Governing progress: From cybernetic homeostasis to Simondon’s politics of metastability, https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00380261221084426 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00380261221084... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Grothendieck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Grothendieck [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topos [5] 2021, Topos and Stacks of Deep Neural Networks, https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.14587 https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.14587 [6] 2013, Grothendieck’s 1967 Lectures in the Forest in Vietnam, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00283-013-9368-6 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00283-013-9368-6 [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bead_Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bead_Game
    • msla 3y ago
      You're throwing out a lot of names to defend a White Supremacist Fascist named Ted Kaczynski.
      • ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
• moffkalast 3y ago
  > Friedrich Kittler Whoever decided to not name him Adolf did the guy a huge favor.